HMRC rules that the French social charge of 15.5% cannot be deducted against UK tax

[Sprogster]

HMRC rules that the French social charge of 15.5% cannot be deducted against UK tax .

This is really going to help the already subdued French property market!

http://www.sykesanderson.com/private_client/articles/HMRC-rules-on-French-Social-Charge.asp?j

 

 

[woolybanana]

Well, if they are not a tax, then it can be charged on UK old age pensions then!

[Pickles]

[quote user="Sprogster"]

HMRC rules that the French social charge of 15.5% cannot be deducted against UK tax .This is really going to help the already subdued French property market! http://www.sykesanderson.com/private_client/articles/HMRC-rules-on-French-Social-Charge.asp?j [/quote]

Is there any link to the original HMRC decision? Sykes seems to be the only reference that takes this line. What are they basing it on?

[NormanH]

[quote user="woolybanana"]Well, if they are not a tax, then it can be charged on UK old age pensions then![/quote]

I don't know about that, but the social charges on pensions aren't 15% as with property transactions. I think they are 6.6% (possibly going up to 7.5%)+ .5%

I already pay these on my OAP, as I also have a French Pension on which they are retained at source.

How scandalous that a tax advisor and solicitor says that this will "add moral legitimacy to tax evasion".

It was brought in by a democratically elected government, whether it is convenient or not...

[idun]

[quote user="woolybanana"]Well, if they are not a tax, then it can be charged on UK old age pensions then![/quote]

So do we call all deductions 'tax'. We pay cotisations on the french pension, but don't try and say that they are income tax to HMRC, how could that wash.

So for us having a french S1 means that we pay french cotisations on the french pension. And with current UK rules, you don't pay UK cotisations to get your UK S1. If the french could start charging you on your UK pension...... then that would mean that we would come under UK rules and not pay any cotisations to France.............. I'm sort of thinking......... bring it on.......... we'd be better off[6]

[andyh4]

There is plenty that is unfair in the health insurance area.

Take my situation.  I am employed in Germany and pay for 100% health insurance (apart from a 10€ flat rate per quarter if I actually use the system).

I am now seconded to France and get from my insurance an E106 which gives me 70% insurance in France and means I need to purchase insurance to top up my insurance.

 

Methinks this will be an area for the future for the EU boffins in Bruxelles to rule upon, because it is a major potential bar to the free movement of labour.

[idun]

Every country has it's own way of looking at health care. IF we had a United States of Europe we might get the same health care for everyone, but perhaps not. I suppose the best thing for you to do andyh4 is to ask for special expenses from your company to cover any of these costs that you will not normally encounter whilst working and living in Germany.

[andyh4]

I wish I could Idun, but no such luck

[idun]

No extra allowances on secondment???? I thought that most companies did to be honest, or used to. Is it la crise that has stopped such extra help?

[parsnips]

[quote user="woolybanana"]Well, if they are not a tax, then it can be charged on UK old age pensions then![/quote]

Hi,

     It's only HMRC that has decided they are not a tax ; article 2 of the treaty clearly states that they are a tax under the treaty , and the french being a legalistic -minded lot presumably accept that.   In any case the EU after a long court battle forced the french to stop charging CSG on UK state pensions (which they once did) and also on other pensions for E121 (S1) holders.   Although, I have to say that that decision was based on the fact that the court declared that they were , in fact , a social contribution , and not a tax!  So , it is possible that they may try it , especially now they are in desperate straits.

     

     

[NormanH]

I am having a senior moment .[8-)]

Is it true parsnips that as things stand for those who haven't got an S1 but are in the  French system some other way (CMU  or because of having a French pension) that the OAP is subject to CSG, but  Local Government ones aren't?

Or did I dream that?