Making Tax Return if outside France for more than 185 days

[Africa Pilot]

I have been making tax returns for past eleven years as a resident and property owner in France. However, last year I worked outside of France for more than 185 days so (presumably) I am non-imposable for 2012. How do I declare this on my tax return form?

If I simply do not make the tax return I suspect that I will rapidly have the Fisc on my case!

[HoneySuckleDreams]

If you have been paying Tax etc elsewhere, then you declare it on the additional tax form (the pink form) as revenue exonerated ... form 2047 box 8TI or 8TK if memory serves. But I think that only works if you would get a Tax credit i.e. If you have earned the money in a country that does not have a tax treaty with France then you will have to ask at the tax office.

[parsnips]

[quote user="Africa Pilot"]I have been making tax returns for past eleven years as a resident and property owner in France. However, last year I worked outside of France for more than 185 days so (presumably) I am non-imposable for 2012. How do I declare this on my tax return form?

If I simply do not make the tax return I suspect that I will rapidly have the Fisc on my case![/quote]

Hi,

    If your home (ie the house you habitually live in) is in France ,you will probably remain french fiscal resident .   Any work taxed abroad ,will be either tax exempt in France ,or taxed after a credit for foreign tax .  This will depend on any double taxation treaty with the country where you worked .   You can find all France's DTTs on the impots.fr site.   You may find what you need on page 3 of the notice to form 2047 .

[EuroTrash]

http://www.impots.gouv.fr/portal/dgi/public/popup;jsessionid=YQNTMLJVWTLHFQFIEIQCFEY?espId=1&typePage=cpr02&docOid=documentstandard_6069&temNvlPopUp=true

might help you decide whether or not you need to fill in a tax return or not.

If you used to be resident but want to claim you have left, you will need to give a date when you left, fill in a tax return up to that date, and tell them where you are tax resident now, so that they can tie it all up with your new home country.

Also bear in mind that your home in France will become a residence secondaire, you will lose your carte vitale, etc, etc...

[idun]

If in doubt contact the Centre de Non Residents at Noisy le Grand, they are fairly helpful.

[Chiefluvvie]

Hi Africa Pilot - now then, if indeed you are an airline pilot then you should know that your tax liability (if any!) very much depends on where your 185 days outside France were spent i.e. outside or within the EU.

Very specific rules apply to airline personnel - for obvious reasons. Best you check things out with your employer.....

Chiefluvvie (pilot)

[Africa Pilot]

What makes you think I am an airline pilot? Many pilots do not fly for airlines. My employer has no interest in this issue whatsoever.

[Chiefluvvie]

Simple really - the name 'Africa Pilot' suggested that 'maybe' you could be an airline pilot - that's why I stated 'if indeed you are.....'.

So - we've established you're not an airline pilot - therefore you can quite happily ignore my post.

Best of luck with your tax declarations....

Chiefluvvie

[Pickles]

[quote user="Chiefluvvie"]Simple really - the name 'Africa Pilot' suggested that 'maybe' you could be an airline pilot - that's why I stated 'if indeed you are.....'.

So - we've established you're not an airline pilot - therefore you can quite happily ignore my post.

Best of luck with your tax declarations....

Chiefluvvie[/quote]

With the paucity of information provided by the OP, then I think that your assumption was reasonable. As Chiefluvvie indicates, certain jobs have specific taxation rules: if you don't fall into these categories, then you are left with the advice in the other posts..

[Africa Pilot]

OK, but how do I know whether these rules for airline pilots also apply to me? Are the rules negotiated with individual airlines (as CheifLuvvie seems to suggest by the comment that I should contact my employer)? Or are the rules applied to all pilots?

[andyh4]

To answer the question AP, you will need to look at the Double Taxation Treaty/ Treaties between France and the country/ countries where you were working.  They will specify what types of workers in international transport may be exempt from French tax. 

Each DDT is a bilateral agreement and is tailored specifically for the tax rules present in the 2 countries concerned - so without knowing which countries you are referring to and what your specific occupation was, no one here can give you any yes/no answers.

[Africa Pilot]

OK, I fly a Maltese registered business jet for a Lebanese company, based in Nigeria. I fly mostly between Lebanon, Nigeria and Europe. I work two months on, one month off, so last year spent a total of 115 days at home in France. My only residence is in France, and I spent more days in France last year than in any other single country as the rest of the time I am staying in hotels. My home in France is empty and furnished when I am away.

I can't declare my French home as a "residence secondaire" as I don't have any other residence anywhere else. I will therefore be paying my taxe d'habitation and taxe fonciere, and income tax on some investments I have in France.

But am I liable for income tax in France on my salary?

[HoneySuckleDreams]

Where do you pay your tax, Lebanon or Nigeria? either way, it's non EU based tax. As the previous posts suggest, check (if any) the Dual Tax Treaty for whereever you pay it. See what tax credit you get with the treaty (if any) and you will pay tax on the difference (if any)

 

[andyh4]

[quote user="Africa Pilot"]OK, I fly.................for a Lebanese company, based in Nigeria.[/quote]

 

Sorry no such thing.  You either work for a Nigerian company or a Lebanese one (or maybe neither).  You have to clarify who is your employer first.

 

And to explain, I work for Swedish registered company with the main board based in the States, but actually employed by a German registered subsidiary - so German French DDT applies to me and Sweden and the USA have nothing to do with anything.

[Africa Pilot]

I don't have residency in Nigeria or Lebanon, so cannot pay tax there. In any case, I am in these countries less than I am in France.

[Pickles]

[quote user="andyh4"]

[quote user="Africa Pilot"]OK, I fly.................for a Lebanese company, based in Nigeria.[/quote]

 

Sorry no such thing.  You either work for a Nigerian company or a Lebanese one (or maybe neither).  You have to clarify who is your employer first.

[/quote]

I think that what AP meant was that HE (she?) is based in Nigeria, working for a Lebanese company.

[Pickles]

[quote user="Africa Pilot"]I don't have residency in Nigeria or Lebanon, so cannot pay tax there. In any case, I am in these countries less than I am in France.[/quote]

Are any tax deductions made at all from your salary?

[Africa Pilot]

"Sorry no such thing. You either work for a Nigerian company or a Lebanese one (or maybe neither). You have to clarify who is your employer first."

The company that owns the plane is registered in Nigeria, but owned by a Lebanese holding company. I get paid from Lebanon and no tax reductions are made at source. I can't pay tax in Lebanon as I am not resident there.

[HoneySuckleDreams]

[quote user="Africa Pilot"] I can't pay tax in Lebanon as I am not resident there.[/quote]

I'm sure if you insisted they would relieve of your money [:)]

It looks like you will be declaring your income in France with no tax deducted at source, so you will pay whatever the tax/cotisations is/are.

Mr Hollande will appreciate your largesse

[EuroTrash]

On the information given it seems pretty clear that France is still your 'home', since everyone has to have a domicile and a fiscal residence somewhere and France seems to be the only contender. Therefore you will continue to declare your worldwide income there, and since you can't demonstrate that it has already been taxed elsewhere, since it hasn't then France will tax it.

Being in France for more than half the year is a factor that will likely make you fiscally resident here but being out of France for more than half the year does not mean that you automatically stop being fiscally resident. If in fact you spent more time in France than any other country, I don't think there can be any question about it.

[Pickles]

[quote user="EuroTrash"]On the information given it seems pretty clear that France is still your 'home', since everyone has to have a domicile and a fiscal residence somewhere and France seems to be the only contender. Therefore you will continue to declare your worldwide income there, and since you can't demonstrate that it has already been taxed elsewhere, since it hasn't then France will tax it.

Being in France for more than half the year is a factor that will likely make you fiscally resident here but being out of France for more than half the year does not mean that you automatically stop being fiscally resident. If in fact you spent more time in France than any other country, I don't think there can be any question about it.[/quote]

But also in this case, it looks to my inexpert view quite likely that the special regimes applicable to aviators and merchant seamen apply ...

[Africa Pilot]

Thanks Pickles. Do you know where I can find out more about these exceptions? And how do I flag this up on the tax form? I have not seen any paragraph in the tax form which applies to these regimes.

[Pickles]

[quote user="Africa Pilot"]Thanks Pickles. Do you know where I can find out more about these exceptions? And how do I flag this up on the tax form? I have not seen any paragraph in the tax form which applies to these regimes.[/quote]

Hmmm ... I've just had a quick look and what I have found thus far indicates that you may not be exonerated (because of the country of employment not being in the EU). You should google the double taxation treaty for France with the Lebanon which may cover the situation.

The Code général des impôts, CGI. - Article 81 A sets out requirements that you may not meet.

However, if all else fails, if you have a look here you will find some items regarding deductions allowable because of your profession (30%).

I also came across an exemption for living allowances paid to you in the exercise of your profession.

[parsnips]

[quote user="Africa Pilot"]Thanks Pickles. Do you know where I can find out more about these exceptions? And how do I flag this up on the tax form? I have not seen any paragraph in the tax form which applies to these regimes.[/quote]

Hi,

      Here is the double tax treaty between lebanon and france ; you may need to discuss it with a professional - possibly not your local tax office;

www.lebanon-offshore.com/treaties/France.pdf

[HoneySuckleDreams]

I think that Article 81 A mentions that you have to be employed and salaried by a company in France and then relocated abroad to benefit.

The tax treaty is here :

http://www.impots.gouv.fr/portal/deploiement/p1/fichedescriptive_1916/fichedescriptive_1916.pdf