CeeJay Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Any help would be very grateful.We have a friend who was married to a French man for about 25 years and has lived in France during that period. The husband was very rich through his parents, did not work therefore had no need to pay into any French social security system. About 6years ago our friend and her husband were divorced with no settlement being given to our friend. She had some small savings and bought a house near us and thereafter was reliant on the Caf for a monthly payment of about 350 Euros to live on.She is now 65 and has been told by the Caf that her payments will now stop because she is entitled to an OAP. Unlike UK she had to apply for the OAP formally when she was 65, not before, however her Caf payments have stopped! She has just been informed by the French Pension people that she is not eligible for a pension, without giving a reason!As of today's date she has the sum of 65centimes to live on, however the Mairie has given her some free food which should last and, of course, we shall do what we can. This seems to me to be an intolerable situation, either she has not told us all that is relevant, or the system here is being bogged up somewhere, surely there is something she could do or somebody to turn to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 My first reaction is why didn't she find out? I suppose too late for that, but her french should have been up to it, and the simple truth is that we get to 65 or we die before and most of us assume the former will happen. Enough of that. It is as far as I know something like the ASPA they deal out the minimum vieillesse. She should really see her assistante sociale if she is really sans ressources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemonimo Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 CeeJay is your friend was receiving the RSA paid by the CAF they would have informed her when she was 64 that the payments would stop at 65 and she should approach the Social Security Assurance Retraite organisation. Did she ever work in the UK because if she did she would be eligible for something (every bit helps) and if she raised children in the UK or in France, that contributes towards a pension. She should get in touch with an assistante sociale and also with the UK pension authority as her situation is obviously untenable. The french government thinks that €700 is the amount a single person needs to survive on and if at 65 a pension does not arrive at that sum, then your friend may well be entitled to this aide. However, it is 'recuperable' which means that when she dies, the state will claim from her estate the amount they have paid out over the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsnips Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Hi, She should arrange through her mairie to see the "assistante sociale" who should be able to get her on the ASPA . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 There is this (idun was talking about it)http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/F2572.xhtmlL'allocation simple est destinée aux personnes âgées de plus de 65 ans privées de ressources suffisantes. Conditions à remplir être âgé de 65 ans (60 ans en cas d'inaptitude au travail), avoir des ressources inférieures au plafond de ressources pour l'allocation de solidarité aux personnes âgées (ASPA) résider en France métropolitaine ou dans un département d'outre-mer, être français ou étranger, sous réserve de fournir une preuve de la régularité du séjour, ou avoir résidé en France métropolitaine de façon ininterrompue au moins 15 ans avant l'âge de 70 ans, (au 1er avril 2011) 742,27 € par mois pour une personne seule ou lorsqu'un seul membre du couple en bénéficie, It has to be said that the story is very bizzare. I have a small French pension (taken at 63) and had a great deal of contact with the various organisations well before...I agree with parsnips that the assistante sociale is an urgent appointment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5-element Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 I agree with what was said above about seeing the assistante sociale: ASPA would seem the way to go. I am also puzzled and wonder about the holes in the story - it is odd that someone (especially a houseowner) would suddenly find themselves with only 65 centimes to their name, without any idea as to how it got to that point, or as to where the previous payments were coming from, and how long they would last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Hmm. I know nothing about French law, I admit - but does a rich ex-hubby not have any obligations to his former wife? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 The poor ones certainly seem to! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CeeJay Posted November 22, 2011 Author Share Posted November 22, 2011 Thanks to everyone for there observations.As far as rich hubbies go, this one has washed hands, so to speak, and will have nothing more to do with ex.very sad, but that is life!I do agree that there are holes in the story, but I can only go on what I have been told, and accept that it may be very difficult for any person in this situation to fully accept that they may have not acted in the past in their own best interests........we are all human after all!The important thing for me at this time is to be able to give support when it is needed and to give useful advice, hence this plea to the Forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 As I said, ASPA and assistante sociale, nothing more you can suggest to her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CeeJay Posted December 1, 2011 Author Share Posted December 1, 2011 An update on this very unfortunate situation is that my friend has seen a senior person from the ASPA at Montpellier and he has informed her that because she has never worked in France, although she has lived here for the past 25years and had no need to work, she is not eligible for any government pension.Additionally the RSA have informed her that they cannot continue payment after she is 65yrs and that what she now receives from them is only a loan and will stop soon.She has checked with Newcastle regarding a pension from UK but she does not have enough years of contributions for any sort of pension, because in those days females could opt for reduced or full payments which obviously affected pension rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 All I can say is that if she moves back to the UK she will not starve. Someone will help her out, maybe grudgingly as the truth is that money is not 'just' dished out, but I am sure that she would get something.I find it hard to believe that there is no help in France at all. Didn't she take french nationality, having a french husband. Re money to ex spouses. My friend is divorced, but the court made it clear that they only money they gave was for the kids. No pension in the future either. And the courts decide how much is to be paid, I don't think that there are even any guidelines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Its possible to negotiate (ex) wives pension entitlement in the Uk, it can be part of the settlement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/F12017.xhtml#N101AA Right please look at this. After 5 years in France she HAS TO BE treat as a french citizen. If french citizens get the ASPA, then so should she. She should be screaming blue murder about racism or some such thing and get it. They cannot treat her as if she has just arrived in France, I believe it is illegal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 I already quoted above:être français ou étranger, sous réserve de fournir une preuve de la régularité du séjour, ou avoir résidé en France métropolitaine de façon ininterrompue au moins 15 ans avant l'âge de 70 ans, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 I know you had NH. Just thought I'd put the link in and a few comments too[Www] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 It is certainly true that some French bureaucrats have a habit of interpreting regulations in an individual way, and need to be reminded of the official 'texte'.On the other hand a couple of things spring to mind.What would happen at retirement age in the UK if the person concerned hadn't contributed? I don't know..it's a real question.Second, if this lady gets the ASPA it is 742,27 € par mois pour une personne seule Yet this is without having ever contributed, despite being married to a rich man, who could have paid something for both of them.This is rather more than my OAP and French pension combined, and I paid my contributions ....Surely something is wrong with the maths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardian Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 [quote user="idun"]All I can say is that if she moves back to the UK she will not starve. [/quote]Maybe so, but the UK is 'foreign' to her, having lived in France for the last 25 yrs and BTW she (seemingly) has no right to any form of income there. Even if she wanted to do it, she can't sell her house just like that: her immediate problem is income.This poor lady is effectively stateless and that can't be right: both sides of the Channel, there are countless situations where people fetch up from who-knows-where and get taken care of.I've got no answers - only to urge the OP to follow Norman's exhortations on her behalf and to accept my (and I'm sure other's) admiration for his humanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 I think that she would get pension credits in the UK approx £130 odd per week. Then not pay a mutualist, or pay council tax, or dental treatment, or prescriptions and have a bus pass too. So even though the £130 odd doesn't sound much, with the add ons it sort of increases what someone has to live on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suein56 Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 [quote user="NormanH"]What would happen at retirement age in the UK if the person concerned hadn't contributed? I don't know..it's a real question. [/quote]I do; as I am in this situation. You get nothing.Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Sue, where do you get nothing from? France or the UK. edit and I suppose the next question is, are you over 60, even 65? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemonimo Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Norman, if the lady in question gets the ASPA it's because she owns her own home and the french government will get their money back when she dies. In the last year I have had two RDV's with two different people from the Caisse for the retraite. The first (last year) told me that if my combined UK/french/US pensions didn't amount to €700 then I would be eligible for the ASPA of €742 on top of my normal pensions. This year (four months before R-day) the latest counsellor informs me that my French pension 'might perhaps be €200' and that as the government believes that a single pensioner can exist on €700/month then I would be entitled to €500 ASPA to arrive at the magic figure of €700. It is recuperable so the french can claim it back when I die from the sale of my house. As I will have a UK pension and when I am 66 I will be entitled to a US pension the ASPA is not relevant to my situation. However, what happens if a person has no 'bien'? Are they entitled to the ASPA? The lady in question has, I believe, her own home so normally she should be entitled to the ASPA. But from my experience, you can see a dozen diffent counsellors and get a dozen different replies. If I were her I would see a lawyer, request aide juridique (to which I'm sure she is entitled ) and go after the husband. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Val_2 Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 She should be entitled to some help in France if her husband paid into the systems whilst they were married. Have the bureaucrats not taken into consideration this point because they do ask about eveything to do with the applicant and the family situation. I only ever worked for ten full years in the UK and paid NI but I have just received a pension forecast from them this week and its a whole lot more than I ever thought it would be and they say even ifyou only ever worked in the UK for just a year, you will get a pension entitlement. I don't think this lady is getting her situation across properly and the assistante sociale should be literally holding her hand and dealing with every aspect of every benefit she may or may not be entitled to. Is there a language problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fureys Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Hi all,I've been following this thread with some interest and now Val 2 has really hit a good spot!I left the UK when I was 22 years old and have lived in Scandinavia ever since, working self-employed and paying in my social welfare contributions. I am due for retirement in 2012 and will get a Swedish pension. I did however work for 3 years in the UK before leaving, paying income tax and social contributions during that time. Does this entitle me to a few bob from the UK?Fureys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyh4 Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 It may well do, and the only way to find out is to ask.Despite the OP comment about pension being automatic in the UK our experience is that you have to claim it.I think I am right in saying that if your last pensionable country was in Scandinavia it is through them that you will have to claim pensions from other countries - but this may not apply if for example the country is Norway since Norway is outside the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.