Form 2042SK - Box 8TK

[minnie]

I have received a partially completed 2042SK in the post. My problem is that I have a Govt pension that I normally put in Box 8TK. Has anyone else found this and if so what did you do? Am I missing anything?

[NormanH]

I have a partially completed 2042 and a pink 2047, with  the 8TK is there on the last page as usual.

Apparently others have had a short version of the same form from which it is omitted.

I suggest asking for the full version, or declaring online.

 

[John Brown]

Yes, I've got the same problem.

Mine was partially filled by the Tax Office and has the 8TK box missing

You and I will have to wait until after the 1st May before the full form is available to download

I'm tempted to write to the Tax Office and ask them not to repeat the mistake but I might wake a sleeping monster

John

[NormanH]

Did you see that I had tried to repost my reworked spread sheet?

[minnie]

Thanks all for your help. When I went to prepare the on-line version (mine is available for completion already) I found 8TK came up on the form automatically when I had entered my UK Govt pension on the other form.

With the online forms you really do have to ensure that you call for all those supplementary ones that you need or else you could make an unintentional ommission!

[Hester]

Hello Minnie, do you mean when you had entered UK govt pension on the pink 2047 "other form". Also as well as in 8TK does the amount get entered on the previous page 1AS/1BS. Thanks, regards, Hester.

[John Brown]

[quote user="NormanH"]Did you see that I had tried to repost my reworked spread sheet?

[/quote]

Yes, thanks very much Norman, like others that turned it into a "proper spreadsheet" Excel ( only joking) it lost one formula along the way

When I put my millions in it showed up and I cut and pasted the formula above, so no problems.

Your spreadsheet says I owe a few Groats so I'll be a happy bunny if its right

I'll rest when I can download the full 2042 and send it on its way

Thanks again, John

[minnie]

Hester - When I input my figures (Govt Pension) in Section VI of pink form it automatically gave me an 8TK on the blue form. That figure does not go into !AS or !BS as far as I'm aware.

My only stumbling block now is to find

E1 Renseignements Complimentaires on the online 2042 Blue form. Can anyone assist with finding this?

Nearly there otherwise...

[minnie]

I can answer my own question now! If you want E1 to appear on the blue form you should put a tick in where it says "si vous avez des autres imputations cochez le case si contre". You'll eventually arrive at this box.

[parsnips]

[quote user="minnie"]Hester - When I input my figures (Govt Pension) in Section VI of pink form it automatically gave me an 8TK on the blue form. That figure does not go into !AS or !BS as far as I'm aware.

My only stumbling block now is to find

E1 Renseignements Complimentaires on the online 2042 Blue form. Can anyone assist with finding this?

Nearly there otherwise...[/quote]

Hi,

      You should add your gross government pension to any other pensions and enter the total in 1AS or 1BS, as well as government pension only at 8TK.

[minnie]

Parsnips - thanks for your contribution but the Connexion 2013 guide states specifically that civil servants pensions should not be included in 1AS and 1BS. Are they wrong?

[NormanH]

I would trust parsnips above anything in the paper usually referred to as The Correction.

He is No1 man on tax [:)]

There is a sticky which explains :

I have a government pension which is taxed at

source in the UK. As I have already paid the tax on it in the UK, do

I really need to declare it in France?

A:

Yes, ‘government’ pensions such as those paid to teachers, civil

servants, police and armed forces remain taxable in the UK but they

have to be declared in France because the income is taken into

account for determining which tax band your other French taxable

income falls into. Having declared the pension here, you are then

entitled to a corresponding French tax credit so you don’t end up

paying tax twice over.

So, on form 2047, your

gross pension goes in section I PENSIONS, RETRAITES, RENTES.

The total then go across to box 1AS (or box 1BS if it’s

your wife’s pension) on the form 2042. Then to get the tax

credit, you enter the gross amount of the pension on form

2047 section VI REVENUS IMPOSABLES DE SOURCE ETRANGER OUVRANT DROIT A

UN CREDIT D’IMPOT EGAL AU MONTANT DE L’IMPOT FRANCAIS

CORRESPONDANT A CES REVENUS then transfer the total across to box

8TK on the form 2042.

That's

it for your ‘government’ pension.

[:)] [:)] [:)]

The same goes for most of the advice here.

One  the reasons why there are fewer posts on this Forum than on  a certain other is that the advice here is better and so less need for others to put right the idiocies of other posters.

Unfortunately some people don't read the advice.

[parsnips]

[quote user="minnie"]Parsnips - thanks for your contribution but the Connexion 2013 guide states specifically that civil servants pensions should not be included in 1AS and 1BS. Are they wrong?[/quote]

Hi,

      Yes, not for the first time, they are wrong.

[John Brown]

Is this the same Connexion that last year on page 5 of their "How to ...Tax Guide" they say forms can be downloaded from www.impots.gouv.uk

Don't think so !

If you are going to charge 9.50 Euro for a booklet, then at least you should get it right !

John

[Hester]

Thanks for replies. I suppose it makes sense that a government pension should now be added to any others  to go towards total income, otherwise a tax credit  wouldn't be needed. Regards Hester.

[John Brown]

The standard form 2042 with the 8TK is now available for download off the French Tax Website

It was put on in the last hour or so,

John

[minnie]

Hello gain, I have asked Connexion to re-check the information which stated that Government pensions should not be included in 1AS and their response is as follows:

Dear Sir

If we give that advice in the guide it’s because our experts consider it to be the right advice… I can confirm that is the case.

Best regards

Oliver Rowland

Journalist

[NormanH]

Not only wrong then, but pig-headed and unwilling to admit their mistakes.

I wonder how many of their "experts" live in France, have government pensions and make tax declarations to the French authorities?

None I suspect if that is the advice they give.

The official Notice for filling out the form is given here

http://www.impots.gouv.fr/portal/deploiement/p1/fichedescriptiveformulaire_8310/fichedescriptiveformulaire_8310.pdf

(It even contains a form which you can fill in for yourself to try to work out your tax liability and which I used as a base for my spreadsheet)

It says clearly

SOMMES À DÉCLARER CASES 1AS à 1DS

– les sommes perçues au titre des retraites publiques ou privées ;

– les rentes et pensions d’invalidité imposables, servies par les

organismes de sécurité sociale ;

– les rentes viagères à titre gratuit ;

– les prestations de retraite (de source française ou étrangère)

[parsnips]

[quote user="NormanH"]Not only wrong then, but pig-headed and unwilling to admit their mistakes.

I wonder how many of their "experts" live in France, have government pensions and make tax declarations to the French authorities?

None I suspect if that is the advice they give.

[/quote]

Hi,

 That response is typical ;  I gave up trying to put the "Correxion" right a long time ago, having been met with that  sort of patronising put down.  You notice they give no references to back up their position,appealing only to the godlike universal knowledge of their so -called "experts" .

  

[minnie]

From the following:

SOMMES À DÉCLARER CASES 1AS à 1DS

– les sommes perçues au titre des retraites publiques ou privées ;

– les rentes et pensions d’invalidité imposables, servies par les

organismes de sécurité sociale ;

– les rentes viagères à titre gratuit ;

– les prestations de retraite (de source française ou étrangère)

the bit about retraites publique etprivees relates, obviously, to the French.

I'll not argue on les prestations de retraite (de source française ou étrangère) except to say that UK Government pensions are treated differently to other prestations de retraite.

Other thasn having great respect for parsnips view on this I remain unconvinced. I would think that Connexion's experts on this topic are Blevins. I remain with an open mind

[NormanH]

So where do these 'experts' say that you should declare UK Government pensions, if not in  1 AS.?

As part of your world wide income they have to be declared, and the system that came in  a couple of years ago is that you declare all pensions in 1 AS, then claim a tax credit on the ones which have already been taxed in the UK, such as UK Government pensions,  by entering the amount in 8 TK. As the OAP has not been taxed in the UK it is not included in 8 TK.

If you refuse to believe us I suggest  you contact your Tax office in French and ask for advice as I did last year

I had this reply:

En effet la convention avec le Royaume-Uni a changé. C'est le système du crédit d'impôt qui est appliqué. Donc vos revenus sont à rajouter soit en pension ou en salaires et à la ligne 8TK.

That is the present system. It is possible that whoever the Connection's experts are they have not kept up with the changes.

In any case Blevins or whoever they may be have no authority in France.

I  am tempted  to the Connection telling them that I am bringing this to the notice of the French tax authorities and  demanding  that they publish a Correction and an apology for misleading people since this seems to me a serious matter.

They are peddling (selling) false information which could incite British residents in France not declare part of their income.
 

[minnie]

As I said earlier on in my thread I'm not talking about state pensions but Civil Service UK pensions which do go in 8TK. I realise that state OAP is declared in 1AS but parsnips states that civil service pensions should be declared in 1AS as well as 8TK.

Hope this clarifies

[Kong]

Our Tax Office advised us to enter Civil Service pension in 8TI (revenues exoneres non declares page 3 retenus pour le calcul du taux effectif) and not into 8TK and not added to 1AS on page 3.

If I remember taux effectif is used to calculate Tax Fonc?

Have they got it wrong?

Kong

[NormanH]

There is another thread going on at the moment about 1 AS.

8 TK is to claim back a tax credit for the Gov Pension as you have already been taxed on it in the UK 'although the credit won't automatically be the same as the tax already paid because it is calculated in French terms).

Obviously therefore that Gov pension has to be included (with the OAP) if you have one) in box 1 AS..

Otherwise you are getting a credit against an amount you haven’t declared.

[Kong]

Norman, I'm not sure if you're answering my question or a previous one. Our tax office is suggesting that Gov. pension is not counted towards taxable income (in 1AS), but is counted in 8TI towards Taux effectif.

I'm sure that entering both in 8TK and adding to 1AS is correct, but is the method our tax office is suggesting wrong and if not what is the effective difference?