New retrospective Tax on certain types of savings being debated

[Aly]

A new retrospective tax is to be debated by French assembly.

'Savings products underwritten between 1997 and 2012 will undergo a

retroactive adjustment of their rates of social security contributions.'

Does anyone have more info or an understanding as to what types of investments and savings this would affect and if this applies to overseas accounts

http://www.boursier.com/actualites/economie/fiscalite-un-nouveau-coup-bas-pour-les-epargnants-21392.html

[NickP]

I love France and really enjoy my time spent here, but when I read things like this and most financial and ministerial problems people on this forum have to endure, I'm so glad I spread my time between France and the UK and stay resident in the UK. That way I enjoy the best of both and miss most of the downsides. I find it mind boggling that any government could come up with such a suggestion let alone implement it, having said that maybe they are going to lower the rates and give everybody a rebate. You never know, is there is an election coming up sometime? [:)]

[Aly]

[quote user="NickP"]

I love France and really enjoy my time spent here, but when I read things like this and most financial and ministerial problems people on this forum have to endure, I'm so glad I spread my time between France and the UK and stay resident in the UK. That way I enjoy the best of both and miss most of the downsides. I find it mind boggling that any government could come up with such a suggestion let alone implement it, having said that maybe they are going to lower the rates and give everybody a rebate. You never know, is there is an election coming up sometime? [:)]

[/quote]

They have calculated a 600 million return on this new tax. I doubt anyone will be getting anything back

[Lehaut]

As I read it, PEA (Plan Epargne en Actions) which we have, PEL, (Plan Epargne Logement ) which we have, and Assurance Vie (which we also have)! If you have made any withdrawals (which we have) you paid a certain amount of charges on the amount you took out (which we did). The charges have varied over the years and with the amounts, so they will back date the new rates. I could not find a reference to specific overseas accounts. When you declare these (which we do), you pay social contributions on them.

Well worth paying extra to support our way of life, its a citizens duty (sarcasm). See the recent polls of how the French view paying income tax.

B*****ds!

[NickP]

Aly my last remark was in jest [:)]

But what may frighten you all is the following   IMF implicated as the source of the 10% EU levy scheme

http://hat4uk.wordpress.com/2013/10/16/global-looting-imf-implicated-as-the-source-of-the-10-eu-levy-scheme/

 

[Pickles]

And it has now been voted through. More retrospective taxation!

http://www.lepoint.fr/economie/pea-pel-assurance-vie-l-etat-rompt-le-contrat-de-confiance-avec-les-epargnants-24-10-2013-1747471_28.php

[mint]

Where are the blood-thirsty revolutionaries when you need them?[6]

[Pickles]

[quote user="sweet 17"]Where are the blood-thirsty revolutionaries when you need them?[6][/quote]

Errrr ... aren't they the ones who are robbing your bank accounts? The problem is you are the TARGET for the blood-thirsty revolutionaries - or at least their toned-down modern equivalents ....

So am I saying that you need the Scarlet Pimpernel?

[parsnips]

[quote user="sweet 17"]Where are the blood-thirsty revolutionaries when you need them?[6][/quote]

Hi,

   Be patient, this gang of cretinous incompetents are beginning to tear themselves apart , without need of outside intervention.   Mr Montebourg (or Mountebank as I prefer to call him)  has called for a 20% devaluation of the € to help France avoid making any real economies.   Stand by for a resounding slap-down from the Bundesbank and Mrs. Merkel , who as everybody knows but no-one likes to say, actually run Europe.

  Meanwhile poor Mr Valls , the only minister with a brain, is beset from all sides by swivel-eyed lefties , who want to defy 75% of the population and let the world's free-loaders and benefits seekers flood into France.

   President Normal (?) still hasn't learnt to tie his tie properly, let alone run the country.

[Pickles]

[quote user="parsnips"] cretinous incompetents [/quote]

Why don't you tell us what you REALLY think? Stop holding back!

[NormanH]

I wonder how much this will affect posters here?

Are there many people who hold French savings accounts from this far back?

These are the rates that are being raised:

pour un placement réalisé en 1990, les

gains obtenus entre 1990 et 1995 étaient jusqu'à présent taxés à 0 %

,

puis à 0,5 % à partir de 1996

 et à 3,9 % en 1997, avant de passer à 9,5 %

entre 1998 et 2004

[Pickles]

[quote user="NormanH"]I wonder how much this will affect posters here?

Are there many people who hold French savings accounts from this far back?[/quote]

Well, it's also about the principle: how can you plan for the future and put money aside if, twenty years later, the government is likely to come back and add more tax that it hadn't told you about at the beginning? What's the incentive to save? If this were a financial institution doing that, there  would be an uproar and they would be taken to court.

[NormanH]

I agree that it is outrageous  as a principle and fear that it may just be the first crack in the dyke, looking at what has happened in Cyprus.

I doubt that any Eurozone savings are safe from sudden predatory measures.

[woolybanana]

Well, my French friends were going wild about this tax yesterday as it does mean a lot of money to them, money they have since used in retirement for other projects concerning, mainly, their kids.

Perhaps the French constitutional court might have something to say about retroactive legislation, though.

Norman, I hate to agree with you, but savings may be the next target by a government that does not know how to control public spending in a meaningful way. It is being discussed on TV and in the papers which is a very bad sign.

[mint]

[quote user="Pickles"]
So am I saying that you need the Scarlet Pimpernel?

[/quote]

Oh, HIM, he's gone into hiding, taking his bank accounts with him.  Back in Old Blighty, perhaps?

[Lehaut]

"NormanH" I wonder how much this will affect posters here? Are there many people who hold French savings accounts from this far back? These are the rates that are being raised: pour un placement réalisé en 1990, les

gains obtenus entre 1990 et 1995 étaient jusqu'à présent taxés à 0 %, puis à 0,5 % à partir de 1996 et à 3,9 % en 1997, avant de passer à 9,5 %

entre 1998 et 2004

Is your understanding that the retrospective charges increase with be only on those "placements" done in 1990 or from 1990 until 2004 (suppose thats the 8 year anniversary for the PEA?)

[woolybanana]

Apparently the UK Treasury have been pondering a retroactive cap on the amount of money that can be held in an ISA (£100,000) as some people have had the common sense to put their money away when they can.

Which only goes to prove that the French disease is spreading!!!!!!

[NickP]

[quote user="woolybanana"]Apparently the UK Treasury have been pondering a retroactive cap on the amount of money that can be held in an ISA (£100,000) as some people have had the common sense to put their money away when they can. Which only goes to prove that the French disease is spreading!!!!!![/quote]

Apparently? Any chance of a link to this apparent happening? Also a cap on the amount of money held is nothing like a retrospective tax apparently.

[woolybanana]

It was mentioned in the Investors Chronicle today but has been in the press before.

Well, retroactive legislation is something the UK and reducing the right to have tax free holdings is in effect an increase in taxation.

[NickP]

[quote user="woolybanana"]It was mentioned in the Investors Chronicle today but has been in the press before. Well, retroactive legislation is something the UK and reducing the right to have tax free holdings is in effect an increase in taxation.[/quote]

 But it is not retrospective tax?

[woolybanana]

Yes it is effectively, in that the amount of holdings in ISAs would be limited retroactively and thus people would have to pay tax on the profit no longer covered by the ISA wrapper.

It was mentioned that the total sum allowed would be £100,000 and that some people are well beyond this.

Work out the rest.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/investing/10373750/Are-politicians-about-to-start-tinkering-with-Isas.html

[mint]

I am definitely clairvoyant or something!

I was just talking to OH in very general terms about Isas and Tesas or whatever they are called (don't have any of either) this motning at breakfast and said that what the French are going to do would be the equivalent of the UK lot suddenly deciding to retrospectively tax people on these savings vehicles.

The Wise Woman has spoken.....aarrrgghhhh...cackle, cackle....

Watch out for my next pronouncements![:P]

[Pickles]

[quote user="NickP"]Any chance of a link to this apparent happening? Also a cap on the amount of money held is nothing like a retrospective tax apparently. [/quote]

There was an article in the Sunday Telegraph on 13th Oct:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/investing/10373750/Are-politicians-about-to-start-tinkering-with-Isas.html

You might want to open it in a Private window or equivalent.

[Pickles]

[quote user="sweet 17"]I am definitely clairvoyant or something!

I was just talking to OH in very general terms about Isas and Tesas or whatever they are called (don't have any of either) this motning at breakfast and said that what the French are going to do would be the equivalent of the UK lot suddenly deciding to retrospectively tax people on these savings vehicles.

The Wise Woman has spoken.....aarrrgghhhh...cackle, cackle....

Watch out for my next pronouncements![:P][/quote]

So! YOU gave them the idea, eh? In that case, do us all a favour and STOP GIVING THEM IDEAS!

[NickP]

[quote user="woolybanana"]Yes it is effectively, in that the amount of holdings in ISAs would be limited retroactively and thus people would have to pay tax on the profit no longer covered by the ISA wrapper. It was mentioned that the total sum allowed would be £100,000 and that some people are well beyond this. Work out the rest. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/investing/10373750/Are-politicians-about-to-start-tinkering-with-Isas.htm   l[/quote]

FFS; what part of  "it is not a retrospective tax don't you understand" It's all if's and buts.