Bloo*y school buses

[woolybanana]

Four kids slaughtered and heaven knows how many damaged; those soddin school buses are lethal. How did the driver not see the train?

I see them round here on the little lanes and it is a miracle those kids survive.

In case you don't know, a train clobbered a coach load of kids on a level crossing, about 10 miles west of Perpignan.

Ahhhhhhhhh!!

[BritinBretagne]

I could say the same about white van drivers but it seems a bit harsh to blame them all because of a few bad apples. Do you actually know the details of what happened?

[woolybanana]

Bus apparently got caught between the barriers at a crossing that had been frequently complained about. Will have to wait for the official report.

Seems unlikely though.

[richard51]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/14/school-bus-and-train-in-serious-accident-in-southern-france

[Harnser]

There seems to be confusion as to what happened re the barriers at this crossing.

According to witnesses cited by Le Figaro, the crossing barriers were down when the crash occurred.

But the big sister of a pupil in a second school bus behind the one struck by the train said: "She just told us that the bus was cut in two down the middle, and that it had crossed because the barriers were not down."

[woolybanana]

Smacks of nastiness to me, A's word against B's , one of which may be a load of terrified, damaged kids.

[Harnser]

Kids don't do that stuff - at that age they say what they see.

[AnOther]

Or what they think they saw !

Until some hard and indisputable facts begin to emerge though I fail to see the point of even discussing the incident because all it can amount to is gossip and wild speculation.

[BritinBretagne]

[quote user="woolybanana"]Smacks of nastiness to me, A's word against B's , one of which may be a load of terrified, damaged kids.[/quote]

After your first post I cannot believe you wrote this. You were pointing your finger at the driver before any facts were known.

[Gardian]

Whilst I agree with ANO’s view that speculation is pointless in the absence of hard facts, I’ve just seen a photograph of the crossing (pre-accident).

The crossing barriers are on the approach side only, thus no possibility of a vehicle being stopped on the crossing by a barrier being down on the exit side. There appears to be a kerb in the centre of the road, thus inhibiting an approaching vehicle from zig-zagging around the barrier (and anyway, a manœuvre which it would be hard to envisage a school bus undertaking.)

The most likely scenario would appear to be that there was a malfunction which left the barrier up despite an approaching train. Sad to say, but it was an umpteen thousand to one chance of a collision.

The only other possibility would be that for whatever reason, the bus crashed through the lowered barrier. Early witness reports seem to suggest that this didn’t happen.

[woolybanana]

True, Gardian, but given the frequency of these crossing accidents in France over the last years, one would have thought a school bus driver would have been cautious.

[Harnser]

Were the barriers up or down at the time of the crash?

No one seems to know for certain.

https://www.ouest-france.fr/faits-divers/accidents/accident-de-millas-le-passage-niveau-t-il-fonctionne-correctement-5449356

There is mention in that report about whether the batteries were stolen or not.

[AnOther]

This is the crossing, a fairly major road and visibility of the rail track not too good.

https://goo.gl/maps/QwYcVP4xgCs

In the absence of flashing lights to warn of an oncoming train I defy any driver to feel the need to exercise one iota of extra caution when driving across it so it's grossly unfair to say that a school bus driver might be at fault for not doing so either.

[alittlebitfrench]

I don't see the point of your post Wooly.

Nobody knows what happened here.

What is your problem with school buses ?

[NormanH]

None of us knows what caused this, so it is too early to be blaming anyone or anything.

On the other hand those who deserve admiration are of courses  the rescue and medical services, but also the 'ordinary' people I saw on the news queueing up to give blood which is in rather short supply at the moment.

(I know that many of us cannot give blood in France because we lived in the UK at the period of mad cow disease.)

The lesson for me is that is a situation such as this  stop criticising and blaming others and do something practical if you can. If you can't help don't hinder.

[woolybanana]

[quote user="alittlebitfrench"]I don't see the point of your post Wooly.

Nobody knows what happened here.

What is your problem with school buses ?[/quote]

School buses are involved in far too many accidents, many of them fatal, because they are often too big for the roads and driven too fast. Just check in Le Monde today to see some of the worst incidents.

Wasn't someone on this forum pushed into a ditch by one a few yours ago, which didnt even stop?

Solution is of course smaller vehicles, but then someone might have to pay more or earn less from the contract. Seems cheap to stop kids being slaughtered.

[DraytonBoy]

I think it's wrong to start such a thread before anyone knows what happened. A bit of research shows that France has a dreadful record of deaths/injuries at level crossings, this year alone 30 people have been killed on crossings (even before yesterday's tragedy) so ignoring the fact that the latest deaths involved a school there is clearly a problem, I was also very surprised to learn that nearly 20% of level crossings here have no barrier.

[BritinBretagne]

And of course school bus accidents only happen in France. This is from today’s news;

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-42363808

[woolybanana]

And the SNCF is working to correct the problem; they are progressing so fast that it will take 2000 years to correct the problem at the rate of five per year.

Ultimately the driver has a duty of care and in these circumstances is always responsible. Not nice to say I know, but true.

[andyh4]

Sorry Wooly but once again the words are emanating from your rear end and not your brain.

Even if it were 5% per year it would be 200 not 2000 years.

You jumped on a bus driver, who may be proven to be completely innocent and now you jump on the rail company. It seems your bile is directed at whomsoever you think could just be to blame at the immediate instant in time.

So here is your chance to go off on yet another irrelevant tirade (in the absence of any hard evidence except the death toll). in some circles it has been suggested that the batteries that power the links to the warning lights and the barriers may have been stolen. So now you can vent your ire at every scumbag that had ever helped themselves.

As ANO said yesterday and Norman has repeated today, let's wait for some facts before acting like a 19th century lynch mob - possibly your era Wooly, not mine.

[woolybanana]

Andy, not 5% but 5-7 crossings altogether (Le Monde) which will take 2000 years.

Regardless of the state of the crossing, my point about the driver's responsibility remains valid.

[alittlebitfrench]

I have never heard of a problem with school buses in France.

I have to admit, I'm a bit lost on this one Wooly.

Bus and lorry drivers in France are very well trained compared to the UK and other countries.

[andyh4]

My apologies Wooly I read 5 per year as 5 per cent.

I assume since you think the driver is responsible for not stopping in case the lights on the crossing were not functioning correctly, that you yourself do indeed draw to a halt at all traffic lights regardless of which light is showing, just in case. If so, I think I have been stuck behind you on more than one occasion.

[nomoss]

If you look at AnO's link to Google Maps, or even better, look at the accident site on Google Earth, and the images of the crash scene, you will see that the bus was probably approaching the level crossing from the South, having left the Christian Bourquin secondary school, to the south of Millas, and turned left onto the D612.

This would have been the obvious shortest route from the school to Saint-Féliu-de-l'Amont, that is, going over the level crossing and immediately turning right towards Saint Feliu.

In the pictures of the accident scene, the position of the bare trees corresponds with the line of poplars to the SE of the crossing, and the wreck of the bus, fence, and gantry are in front of the trees, on the east side of it. These show that the train was travelling eastwards, and hit the left side of the bus on the crossing.

Given that the bus driver reportedly said that she was trapped between the barriers, when in fact this is not possible, as the barriers are only on the approaches to the crosssing, is it possible that the driver turned left into the wrong (left hand) lane of the D612, and stopped on the tracks when she arrived at the closed barrier?

Even worse, was turning left onto the LH lane of the D612, then crossing to the correct lane a habitual way of beating the barrier?

[woolybanana]

Actually, when shoppering (sic) or wandering round here I do have to cross several crossings. Call me nuts but I do stop, look and cross (listening is a bit pointless), Generally the lines round the crossings are very visible so it is easy and quick.

When I did my small bus driver training it was drummed into us that rural level crossings were dangerous by nature and should be approached with caution. And that we/ I were/was responsible for safe crossing.

QED!