This year's Avis d'Imposition

[NormanH]

I have just found that mine is now available online, following a comment mint made on another thread.

I had no indication that it was there,  so if anyone else is waiting it might be worthwhile looking.

[woolybanana]

Why do you have to spoil a pleasant morning with news of financial confiscation?

[johnnyboy]

Anyone else having trouble viewing theirs? I can see the document listed under mon compte, but when I try to open it I get a blank page. I can see "Enregistrer" at top of doc, but nothing happens when I click on that. Any ideas please?

Johnnyboy

[johnnyboy]

Doh! Found out why now, did not realise that it downloaded, thought it would open the document right there!!!

Johnnyboy

[AnOther]

Got mine in the post on Saturday.

[Doodle]

Ours arrived in the post last monday ie 11th. Up at the crack of dawn on the 12th, armed with all the paperwork and the calculation printed from the impot site which we believe is calculated correctly, to be the first through the door when the bureau opened at 8:30 am as the bill was way over calculated again this year. Very nice lady (Le Contrôleur principal des Impôts!) sorts the problem but we end up with another problem as she doesn't understand why as we don't work we are making payments to URSSSAF for our health bill and is looking into it. All I know is that I've been paying my 8% to URSSAF for the last 5+ years when the bill arrives every 3 months.

Incidentally, can someone tell me how best to explain to our tax office that we are early retired, our pension is a company pension (not govmt) that I paid towards for 30 years and am now collecting as I can't seem to get them to understand the concept.

Thanks Chris

[suein56]

[quote user="knee gel"]... as she doesn't understand why as we don't work we are making payments to URSSSAF for our health bill and is looking into it. All I know is that I've been paying my 8% to URSSAF for the last 5+ years when the bill arrives every 3 months.

Incidentally, can someone tell me how best to explain to our tax office that we are early retired, our pension is a company pension (not govmt) that I paid towards for 30 years and am now collecting as I can't seem to get them to understand the concept. [/quote]

Being in the same situation, ie early retired and not yet receiving a state pension and making quarterly payments to URSSAF towards our health cover, I explained it all to the tax office early on by saying that many people in the UK receive 2 pensions and that we received a pension from employment in the UK but were not yet old enough to receive a pension from the state for our old age.

And that it would be the old age pension which would cover our health with payments from the UK so we would no longer be 'à la charge de la sécurité sociale' and hence no longer obliged to make payments to URSSAF.

Sue

[NormanH]

[quote user="knee gel"]Ours arrived in the post last monday ie 11th. Up at the crack of dawn on the 12th, armed with all the paperwork and the calculation printed from the impot site which we believe is calculated correctly, to be the first through the door when the bureau opened at 8:30 am as the bill was way over calculated again this year. Very nice lady (Le Contrôleur principal des Impôts!) sorts the problem but we end up with another problem as she doesn't understand why as we don't work we are making payments to URSSSAF for our health bill and is looking into it. All I know is that I've been paying my 8% to URSSAF for the last 5+ years when the bill arrives every 3 months.

Incidentally, can someone tell me how best to explain to our tax office that we are early retired, our pension is a company pension (not govmt) that I paid towards for 30 years and am now collecting as I can't seem to get them to understand the concept.

Thanks Chris[/quote]

She must be a very ignorant Contrôleur principal des Impôts if she doesn't understand the CMU de base:

La CMU de base  est gratuite sauf si vos revenus dépassent un certain plafond.

Dans ce cas, vous devez payer une cotisation égale à  8% du montant du

revenu fiscal de référence mentionné dans votre dernier avis

d’imposition, déduction faite du plafond d'exonération.

This is explained quite clearly here:

http://www.cmu.fr/cmu-de-base.php

Makes you wonder how on earth she got her job.

[Doodle]

Hi Sue & Norman, thanks for your comments.

We too explained to her in similar words to yours Sue and we also said pension societe which she then seemed to understand but she still insisted we shouldn't be paying URSSAF as we are under the bareme.

The CMU each year want to know our RF. In our opinion, as a couple we are over the bareme and so should pay the 8%.

Singularly only one of us is over the bareme so could this be where the confusion is setting in with the tax office.

Chris

[idun]

I have no idea why you are not getting it across about the 'private' pension, Everyone salaried, pays it in France (as far as I am aware) and as far as I am concerned a better system than the UK.

I would say you should say it is your retraite complementaire and they have to understand that, surely they have to understand that. All you need say is that the complementaire in the UK is also paid to the pre-retraité, a different system.

The URSSAF, well as NH said, they should understand that too. And frankly I didn't think that the URSSAF payments have anything to do with the staff at the impots, even if it is on your bill. As I cannot see the URSSAF relinquishing any power over the money that is owed to them.

[powerdesal]

Not relevant to the pension comments.........

We got our tax bill this morning :-(

No actual income tax to pay but a substantial amount of social charges ( a tax by any other name ) on investment income.

There is no indication as to the possibility of paying in two(?) tranches, is there a limit below which it is not possible or is it up to me to request the facility ?

[idun]

RH said:This is explained quite clearly here:

http://www.cmu.fr/cmu-de-base.php

Makes you wonder how she got her job.

come

on RH, we both know that all she had to do was pass the concours and

have good exams results and then would be employed to reek havoc if she

so wished or simply being clueless and disinterested about the job she

is paid to do. Can they rid themselves of useless staff these days? I

have no idea, but I daresay that they can't.[Www]

powerdesal, I do believe that it would depend on how much is owed as to whether they would let you pay in installments. Remember those that pay in tranches in France have already paid in February and May and have one more payment to make for this year.

Because of the changes to the income tax system (not social charges) many people have found themselves now paying nothing, but others are getting far bigger bills than they expected and on french news, they were shown being able to pay in installments.

Now whether they would take the same view about investment income for social charges, rather than income tax, I do not know. You can ask. But maybe they will take the view that having 'income' from investment implies that there is money available. As I say, you can always ask.

[Patf]

As we all know, the UK has a state OAPension, which workers contribute to. To which they are entitled at a later and later date. And which is taxable in France if you live there.

Is there an equivalent in France? Or do workers only contribute to the appropriate caisse?

[NormanH]

I don't quite understand your question.

As you say there are different 'caisses' but they all lead in their different ways to a pension, but one based on the contributions paid, not a standard payment as in the OAP for those who have made the required amount of payments.

The formula is quite complicated but basically based on an average salary times the length of service/  theoretical maximum  times the 'taux', or rate you have earned.

This pension is a 'state' pension although some people also have a complementaire.

Some people have not worked but there are other arrangements for them.

[Patf]

Oh I see now Norman (I think.) There's only basically one pension possible for french workers.

I was trying to work out why some french tax officers can't "get their head round" the fact that in UK we can have 2 completely separate pension systems. Perhaps because UK is a mix of social and private enterprise, whereas France is mostly social.

Also one pension is only taxable in UK.

[NormanH]

Yes while I have wildly over-simplified as I am sure idun would be able to explain, all the French systems for workers come back to a 'state' pension, but with widely differing amounts according to what  has been paid in.

The closest to the private pension pot in the UK is the system for 'cadres' in which you accrue points which each year have a certain value.  ( http://www.arrco.fr/ )

The present values are shown here http://www.agirc-arrco.fr/

[idun]

It is my belief that all salaried people in private entreprises have to contribute to their (private pension) retraite complementaire. I believe that that is what happens, as it is called Retraite Complementaire Obligatoire and until someone shows me something different, that is what I think happens. (Civil servants, the self employed and farmers and military etc all have their own systems.) That is to say that everyone contributes and then calculations are made when one retires based on how many points are accrued, based on salary. The points have a value. The employee and employer contribute.

The fonctionnaires will understand a state pension and a complementaire

though, there is no reason on earth why they should not understand that idea.

That the fonctionnaires might not understand the 'private' pension system, the UK version, is quite understandable as far as I am concerned, I don't understand it either........... at all. It makes no sense to me and now this lummox of a Chancellor has said that people can have all their money or some such thing in a lump sum, just the thought makes my brain hurt.

In France one cannot start drawing the  pension complementaire unless one is drawing the state pension. There is no lump sum, there is a pension at retirement age. So really everyone should get at least two pensions, but sometimes, there are more...... and it all makes perfect sense to me. If you take into account most of my adult life was spent in France, then is it a wonder that I find some french things far more 'normal' than I do things in the UK?