T.V.A. fiddle or

[Dave sting]

Not sure if this is the right place but cant get my head around an estimate just had through for new fosse cep, ie, original price plus tva, less grant 50% off original price before tva, now price includes new reduced price plus original tva cost on original price, hope you get the idea, this means the original price plus 10% tva is now the reduced price plus 20% tva. they claim this is correct as the grant does not subject to tva. V.A.T in England would go mad but is this the French norm or am I being hoodwinked,

Dave

[Gardian]

Sorry - after a pleasant evening with a glass or two of CdR, I'm afraid that I'm as hoodwinked as you!

[andyh4]

Like Gardian I too am struggling a little, but if the grant excludes VAT - which I could well imagine - it sounds right to me.

Another way of looking at it is that you pay the bill plus the VAT (for the full amount). Then you receive back the grant based on the ex-VAT price.

[Dave sting]

its confusing for me an ex vat company man, I know its hard to put down in words so il try figures.estimate amounts to

etude 227.27

travaux 7092.80

tva 10% 732.01

grant -50%of travaux -3660.04

charge total 4392.05

Normal english charged as

etude 227.27

travaux 7092.80

grant -50% of trav -3660.04

Balance 3660.04

TVA 10% 366.01

Charge total 4026.04

I hope this helps to show there is a diff of 366 euro, and I cant get my head around their sums

Dave

[woolybanana]

Seems clear enough; the TVA people arent losing out, different government is.

[NormanH]

You seem to think that the grant should pay for half the TVA.....surely the grant is only for work and materiels.

[idun]

I see what you mean about this and it sort of looks confusing.

 But as the work is going to be done and is liable for TVA, why should the government be deprived of the TVA that was due on the inital bill?

Surely it is enough that you are getting quite a good amount of help anyway? And you may be right about this, I don't know, that is all I can say on the subject.

If this was worrying me, I'd call or go and see the people who deal with TVA and ask them.

[Dave sting]

Its just the norm, if you get what amounts to a discount off anything you are charged vat at the end of sale price and not at the original price.

Im not going to course a problem as I am grateful for any reduction and after waiting 4 months to get the price with at least 3 months to wait for installation any delay is not beneficial and could lead to loss of grant, just cant work out in my head the reasoning.

[idun]

Dave, you aren't actually getting this in a sale, you are getting help

from the government towards the costs, which isn't the same.

So I

agree, you get a reduction which includes vat on a sale item you buy. But this isn't a

sale, the full price is being paid for this work and the vat is due on that. It seems the government is only giving you a reduction on the items HT.

As NH said, I don't understand how the 'etude' comes into this calculation though.

And

in the clear light of day, this is making more sense to me, apart from

the 'etude', as if that bit is wrong, you'd be paying more.

[Dave sting]

I agree idun the reduction in etude is also strange, but if I attempt to put it in another way.

The price of something is say £300 + vat = 360

I am offered a trade discount of 50% cost £150 + vat = 180

Should I then have been charged £150 + vat of 60 =£210

Im not ungrateful for the reduction but am used to the english way as above and so find it hard to get my head around it but will send my acceptance to the estimate and throw my hands up in true French fashion

Dave

[idun]

Well the vat isn't 20% is it?

So I would say in France 300€ + vat = 330€ (you said 10% earlier)

with trade discount of 50% = €150 + vat = €165

 

Yes I agree with that calculation, but you are not being offered anything with a trade discount, just the amount that the actual goods cost.

NOW if you can buy this on your own for the reduced amount, go for it. Otherwise, I'd say take the saving you're getting.

Listen as far as I am concerned this is a bit like asking someone in the pub. I always check myself, always, even when my french was rubbish, I never hesitated to check up. I could be saying sound things, or not at all, but I haven't checked up........ and I would!....... if it were me!

If you do check, let us know what they say. I think, apart from the 'etude' that this looks right. Good luck.

[minnie]

As I see it and as was said earlier, you are not getting a discount on the job. Another govt dept is kind enough to give you a grant towards the work. The cost of the job remains the original price and it is up to you to pay the VAT on the whole price.

[BJSLIV]

Why is the grant/refund being shown on the estimate?

I thought the norm was that you paid the full price then sent the bill off to whoever was going to give you the refund, and it was then up to them to work out the amount.

[Dave sting]

Reading the replies, I think the problem revolves around the way they have set out the estimate and shown the grant as half the installation cost instead of just showing a reduction after Vat for an amount equal to half the charge for installing.

Im having it done through the local water authority, this may cost me a little more but could work out cheaper in the long run as they have to pass it after finished and wont, I hope fail there own work, as could happen if I sorted it out on my own and end up with a greater bill to remedy, all papers have now been signed for the go ahead.

Dave