Can I Tell Them Where to Get Off?

[Grecian]

I am wondering if anybody can advise my on an e-mail I received from Fortuneo regarding a recent currency transfer I made in my current account there.

The cheeky bas***** are asking me for details where the money has come from, what I intend to do with it, and where I have moved it onto, claiming they are conforming to 'rules'. The amount is less than £10,000 an amount which I have in the past transferred into my Credit Agricole account with no such similar request from them.

Every now and again Fortuneo demand that I change my password for access to my account, they then may it compulsory to fill in a questionnaire asking lots of personal questions that has nothing to do with them, so I am thinking that this e-mail may just be them snooping, rather than an official line they are following. Before I tell them very politely where to get off, I would like to know if they are within their rights in asking me about my deposit.

[andyh4]

It's a tricky one Grecian.

 

More and more financial institutions are coming under government pressures to monitor currency movements.  This is all in the name of preventing money laundering, bribery etc.

 

All institutions are required to report movements above 12500€ to the authorities and have to say what was the source of the money and where it went.

 

However if a company has ben found to be implicated in shall we say dubious transactions - even if they may have had no reasonable grounds to suspect a problem - they can come under closer scrutiny and, to protect themselves and to be able to reply to the powers that be immediately, they may set internal lower limits.  In Euro terms £10k was probably over the 12.5k€ limit in any case when you made the transfer.  They are then legally bound to report the transaction and will be asked for details.

 

You can tell them where to go.  There is no legal requirement (I think) to divulge the information to them.  However, failing to cooperate could have some unpleasant results including (not exclusively):

They refuse all future dealing with you.

They may recover the money from the source and then hold it in suspension pending your responses - not always easy to do and of course the money may no longer be at its end destination.

Other companies are strangely reluctant to handle your transactions. legally there can be no communication between these companies, so I think we must assume a third party involvement like a government department.

Out of the blue requests from various tax authorities for additional information about your tax affairs, sources of your monies - and they legally can demand this.

Ultimately and in extremis perhaps freezing of bank accounts.

 

It is Big Brother and he is watching - very closely. 

 

 

Edited to add.  The problem may not be with company asking for the information.  It may be that the receiving account has triggered the request for information back to your transfer company.

[nectarine]

You could reply honestly but also get your point across (1) The money came from many years of back-breaking law-abiding tax-paid toil and not from ten minutes sitting at a computer clicking the screen as, presumably, the recipient of this email is doing. (2) You intend to spend it on things that make you happy, whether they be good investments or fast women, or perhaps a mix of the two. (3) You have moved it to a bank that doesn't ask invasive questions of its customers.

[parsnips]

[quote user="nectarine"]You could reply honestly but also get your point across (1) The money came from many years of back-breaking law-abiding tax-paid toil and not from ten minutes sitting at a computer clicking the screen as, presumably, the recipient of this email is doing. (2) You intend to spend it on things that make you happy, whether they be good investments or fast women, or perhaps a mix of the two. (3) You have moved it to a bank that doesn't ask invasive questions of its customers.[/quote]

Hi,

     When , quite frequently , I have to answer one of these questions about source of funds , I always put "savings" - because if you think about it, any money that you have the use of has been saved from being spent on current living expenses.

[minnie]

I quite agree with Parsnips. The main thing is that you declare all bank accounts at the time of your annual tax return.

[Rabbie]

There is a duty on banks nowadays to check up on where payments come from. Don't blame the banks, blame the governments that make these laws. It does seem like overkill for the vast majority of honest people but then popular demand seems to want  to make life difficult for drug dealers and other lowlife.

I would be afraid to withhold information as a direct refusal would arouse suspicion. Better to follow Parsnip's advice and give an honest answer.

[Chancer]

[quote user="Rabbie"]

There is a duty on banks nowadays to check up on where payments come from. Don't blame the banks, blame the governments that make these laws.

I would be afraid to withhold information as a direct refusal would arouse suspicion. Better to follow Parsnip's advice and give an honest answer.

[/quote]

But the banks around here dont seem capable of being pragmatic about a new requirement, to implement it in a way that least inconveniences their customers, quite the opposite in fact, mind you round here they are so nosey and officious that they used to ask these questions years before the legislation came in.

I now pay large sums of cash in every few weeks as most of my customers pay that way, the last time at C.A. they asked me the question and I told them that it was the proceeds of selling large quantities of drugs, that put the guy on the spot and incapable of being pragmatic he had to call the manager, he was just as flummoxed and said that he couldnt possibly write that, so I said give it to me and I wrote it for him.

They no longer ask [:P]

[Chancer]

A ood example of how it could and should be done, and one that no French bank is ever likely to follow is Currencyfair.

The question has slipped in to the transfer procedure on their website, that tells me that they have no choice but to do so, all they have done is just included it as another checkbox on the standard form together with responses like "transfer of savings" "transfer between my accounts" "pension payment" and "other".

Nobody is going to be offended when they have those choices and the "other" is the catch all for all the payments that dont fit into the other categories and the people who like me think that its nobody elses business but mine.

[Grecian]

Thank you all very much for your comments and advice.

Well in the end I have decided to be the model citizen and have sent Fortuneo the relevant information that they were seeking. I kept the reply to a simple 3 line response, source, use of funds, and destination of funds. The whole affair has made me very angry and nectarine I must admit your response was tempting to translate, but at the end of the day I do not fancy a gendarme's size 12 boot kicking the door down at 5am!

I had thought how stupid the request is because surely if you had obtained the money fraudulently then you would not declare the source of your ill gotten gains, but Chancer has shot that theory down in flames,[Www] great stuff Chancer I would have loved to have seen the face of the manager.

[Chancer]

Its a lesson I learnt on my very first day and one that has stuck, people are completely incapable of adapting or thinking outside of the the box, especially if its a box on a form that (they unflinchingly believe) must be filled in.

On opening my bank account which was then with C.L. they wanted me to tell them how much salary I would be paying in each month, I explained that I would be living on savings for a few years (little did I know it would be a decade) had no salary, would transfer several thousand at a time as and when it was needed but irregularly and not each month, "yes but how much is your salary that you will be paying in each month?" was always the robotic response, this went on for 10 minutes before it dawned on me that they had understood but were incapable of  continuing, in the end I told them €1500 per month and the account was opened.

With the next bank I knew what to do and didnt even bother explaining it was a lie, just like when I get car insurance quotes and have to say that i passed my test a year later than I actually did.

[lindal1000]

I don't think they really care what the answer is. If they have asked you and you have told them, then their duty is done and if questioned by the anti fraud people they can say they did it. Some banks seem to take this all a bit far, and some use it as an opportunity to sell you all sorts of useless financial products that you don't want.

[mint]

Lindal, you are right, they are obliged to ask you but you can answer any old thing you like.  This is something called "compliance" in the UK, they get their wrists slapped if they do not fulfil the conditions for compliance.

Some on here might remember when many of us got sent letters from our UK banks to verify identity (a bit like the proof of life scenario) and only notaries, consular official etc are allowed to countersign your form.

A smart, wise person here on the forum told me to ignore the letter and nothing would happen.  I did and nothing did.  They HAD to ask but once they have asked, they have "complied" with the rules and that was the end of that for them and for us.

[Chancer]

Attagirl! [:D]

Sounds like we have une chanceuse [;-)]

I had stuff like tis recently from the French firm that host my .com and .fr websites, if I didnt send them all my proof of ID's copies of passports etc then the feds were going to close my websites or some other threatening stuff.

For one I replied saying that I had already verified my identity when I chose them as a hebergeur and nothing had changed, that they should look amongst their records, that I wasnt going to send them personal info for security reasons, I got no reply, for the .com one I dindt even respond, both sites are still up and running, as you say they have done their bit.

Someone somewhere may put this info to good use, they are not going to be alerted by every chancer and chanceuse who doesnt jump through the hoops but when they pay a particular interest in one person and find that they have never complied with any requests then they may warrant further scrutiny.

In the meantime the terrorists, money launderers and drug dealers will have complied with make believe.