compromis de vente signing

[almostfrench]

Hi,

 

I have read recently that the "Compromis de Vente'" can now be signed in a buyers home country provided that it is signed on French territory...such as a French embassy or French Consulate.  Does anyone know if this is true.  I'm heading over from the US on a house hunting mission in April and I'd like to have the luxury of having a little more time to think about the purchase before I make it.  I understand there is a 7 day cooling off period but I know that a good faith deposit is made with the signing of the "Compromis..." and I would rather not have my finances tied up if I should change my mind after I return to the states.

Thank you

[Will]

The compromis de vente does not have to be signed on French soil. It can be mailed to your own home and signed there. A copy of the compromis signed by all parties is then mailed to you, and your seven days starts from when you sign for receipt of this copy. The deposit is payable by the end of this seven day period, which is when the contract becomes firm and you cannot then withdraw or change your mind. So you really need to be pretty certain that you will proceed when you make an offer to buy. The French system does not look kindly on people who withdraw from agreements, although it is legally possible to change your mind right up to the end of the seven day period of grace.

[Quillan]

I was going to say the same as Will. We had ours sent to us in the UK, the 'clock' started as soon as we signed for the documents, they are sent registered post.

[Wilko]

The OP post beggars belief.........why would you sign anything if you aren't sure. You are the buyer and things ain't selling in a hurry so what's the problem ?

Rgds W

[mint]

Clearly they don't care a toss what they are doing to the peace of mind (not) of the poor sellers.  We'd been through all this in the UK:  people saying yes they want the property, sending surveyors, instructing solicitors and then saying they'd changed their minds.

Meanwhile, the poor sellers have perhaps put down a deposit for another property, packed up, on the point of booking the removal people, etc. etc.

Why not make up your minds BEFORE opening your big mouth and setting anything in motion?  Have you no thought for someone who might be planning their entire future life on your say so?

I just can't for the life of me understand why you would go to the point of agreeing to buy, signing the compromis and THEN changing your mind (unless of course you have some special reason that you could not have foreseen).

[AnOther]

Tell it like it is sweets [kiss]

Whilst I agree that it's bad form to agree to buy knowing that you might change your mind it is after all what the 7 day cooling off period is for [blink]

I wonder who amongst us did not have just the teeniest qualms during those days and indeed how many got cold feet and withdrew ?

[Rdupre]

We sweat buckshot during that cooling off period. What on earth were we doing??? But we decided this wasn't any crazier than anything else we've done (well, not much)  and kept on with it. We sign the final papers at the end of May.

[Will]

[quote user="AnOther"]

Whilst I agree that it's bad form to agree to buy knowing that you might change your mind it is after all what the 7 day cooling off period is for

[/quote]

The 7-day thing is a European rule that was brought in supposedly to protect buyers against unreasonable selling pressures, usually on the doorstep. It was never meant to give encouragement to those who wanted to treat a legal contract too lightly.

Unfortunately all too many buyers use it as such. Before it came in, signing a contract to buy meant something, and all involved in the French house buying process benefited as a result. Now it seems little better than the flawed English process.

[AnOther]

[quote user="Will"]The 7-day thing is a European rule that was brought in supposedly to protect buyers against unreasonable selling pressures, usually on the doorstep.

[/quote]I think you are wrong there Will, according to my research it is an integral part of the Solidarité et Renouvellement Urbain (SRU) law.

http://www.bonapartparisnews.com/2007/08/the-sru-law-sol.html

[honeybee]

hi. can you just reassure me i am not going mad , signing away my life savings for a holiday home in brittany. this cooling off period is anything but cool!!!!

[Richard51]

A buying / selling system that doesn't allow / recognise surveys is bound to result in a few people pulling out after an offer has been accepted.  We pulled out before the seven day cooling off period - because the surveyors report showed part of the house was on the point of sliding down the hill.

[mint]

Richard51, I don't think that surveys are not allowed or recognised.  There's nothing to stop you doing all the research BEFORE agreeing to sign anything.

We've gone through something similar.  We saw a house we liked, we asked to see the report on the fosse once we were told how old the fosse was, we asked to see the document on which was listed the points of non-conformity, we asked the owner to get a feasibility study of the fosse situation and to obtain the written approval for the installation of a new system, etc.

We still haven't signed the compromis but it is now being prepared but only after we have paid a second, prolonged visit to the property and the area, gone into the Mairie's to look at maps relevant to flooding and so on and so forth.

Anyway, there's nothing to stop you putting in a clause suspensive if you are really worried about something.  If the seller does not agree to the clause suspensive then you walk away.

Of course, there might still be issues that you don't manage to suss out before the compromis but even English type surveys do not cover every single point about a property.  In any case, there are some problems with properties which are not apparent on inspection.

I guess risk is inherent in life![I]

[Richard51]

There is no point spending on a survey until you know that your offer will be accepted.  We were advised by our notaire that a clause suspensive in respect of a structural survey outcome would not be accepted because a) they are not the 'norm' in France and b) it is difficult to quantify what constitutes a failed / bad survey.

[mint]

Richard, I do not mean that you can say in a clause suspensive that the property must "pass" a survey.  Of course, that would be too general and, as you say, will not be accepted.

What I mean is that, for example, if you have a particular worry about roof timber infestation then you could say that you would not buy if the infestation means that the whole roof will have to be demolished and replaced.  Or  you could say that, if that were to be the case, you would want a reduction in the price.

In our case, I am sticking out for a written approval for a new fosse.  The owner had the SPANC official on site and an installer and, together they came up with an "acceptable" system.  I want him to give me the all-important bit of paper to say that if system X is installed, then that would be approved.  If the seller objects to that as a clause suspensive, then I will not be buying.

It's fair to say that clauses suspensives have to be specific and not unreasonable, certainly not general like if the house is not structurally sound, then I will not buy.

If anyone out there has any more detailed information, please post.  That is how I understand that clauses suspensives work but then this is only my second French purchase and I don't know the system here as well as the one in the UK.

[Richard51]

Then that presumes you know there is a problem before you have the survey done?  Our problem wasn't obvious - it was the surveyor that picked it up.

[mint]

Good for you, Richard, it sounds like you had a good surveyor.

Excuse me but I do forget that my own husband is a chartered building surveyor...........It's OK, I've often joked that if I'd had a decent surveyor, I wouldn't have bought my previous house! 

[Richard51]

Agreed Sweet.  He was worth every penny.  He cost a few hundred and saved us thousands.

[mint]

Richard, how I wish other people would think like you.  They don't want to spend a few hundred pounds or euros for a survey and yet they are buying property worth several hundred thousand euros?

A no brainer if there ever is one.....

[pachapapa]

Just browsing recent decisions of the Cour de Cassation for the month of march. The decision of the Cour d'Appel was upheld nullifying the sale of the property to the current owner when his Notaire discovered that although not being situated in a flood zone the house had nevertheless been flooded on two occasions.http://www.jurisprudentes.net/Responsabilite-des-vendeurs-et-du.html

[mint]

Fantastic, Pacha, more protection for buyers!  Can only be a good thing and help buyers to overcome some of their reservations.

[Will]

Although it's probably true to say that house surveys are not the norm in France, there are quite a lot of surveyors, many of them British, operating in France. Most can offer a quick service, and will visit and give an initial report within the time gap between making an offer and the compromis de vente becoming firm, so you should not need to worry about suspensive clauses.

Although the principle of 'buyer beware' applies in France, sellers do have a legal duty to disclose known problems that may not be evident (vice caché) - a case of previous flooding is a good example of this. However, if a roof is about to fall down, then the seller may not necessarily know this - it won't have happened before - but it is the sort of thing that should be found by a buyer (or a surveyor appointed by a buyer) before entering into a contract. And something like damp or a structural crack should be obvious so wouldn't really come under a 'vice caché'.