"Bank Robbery"

[David J]

Just seen the BBC 2 programme entitled as above.  The programme gives details of how to claim back 6  years bank charges. 

See the following site and follow the link to "How to claim back Penalty charges"

www.bbc.co.uk/moneyprogramme

You Must See.

 

David J

 

Always On The Ball!!

[Russethouse]

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/cgi-bin/viewnews.cgi?newsid1141050760,24632#nutshell

The link above includes the template for a letter to send too.

[Will]

All very well, but it assumes that you have been penalised for going over your agreed overdraft limit - in which case I think the bank is well within its rights to charge you, and I don't see why people like me should have to subsidise others' carelessness or worse.

And as this is a forum about France, I can just imagine what reaction you would get from a French bank.

[BJSLIV]

I tend to agree with Will.. However its does seem that the banks are not allowed to charge penalty fees for writing a letter to tell someone if they have broken the terms of their contract with  the bank. That applies even if the costs of such things as unauthorised overdraft letters are stated in the terms and conditions. It seems they should only charge the cost of the letter.

For the moment the banks are paying up and not fighting.

The only outcome of this will be the reintroduction of bank charges for everyone. The return of the Seventies!

The consumer bodies such as Which seem to think that that will be fairer all round.

 

 

[Russethouse]

Will, This post is in the lounge, which is the 'off topic section', but if you are just comparing the two countries, is the banking regime so much better in France that the fees are worth while ?

The fact is that the banks are refunding these charges because they are illegal, of course it may be a poor law, however the fact remains that banks are no different to the rest of us they have to stay within the law.

We have already seen First Direct bring in charges for having an account, so far I haven't noticed other banks piling in behind them. Its a hugely competitive market and so far the consumer is reaping the benefit.

[Sunday Driver]

First Direct is not a true example of applying bank charges in the accepted sense.  Their move to introduce charges has arisen because they currently have over 40,000 inactive current accounts which represents a significant management cost to the bank.  If your account has a minimum turnover of £1,500 or you have an additional product such as a savings account or mortgage, then you are exempt from the charges.

As Russethouse says, the market will determine whether any bank is brave enough to re-introduce old style bank charges....

 

 

[Unknown]

[quote user="Will "]

All very well, but it assumes that you have been penalised for going over your agreed overdraft limit - in which case I think the bank is well within its rights to charge you, and I don't see why people like me should have to subsidise others' carelessness or worse.

And as this is a forum about France, I can just imagine what reaction you would get from a French bank.

[/quote]

Will

I understand your comment, but it isn't always the fault of the account holder.  For instance, I had two DD's set up to leave my account, the company I worked for were in financial difficulty and paid my wages late in to my bank.  Subsequently the DD's didn't get paid and I incurred charges.  Bearing in mind the DD's were for £22.50 and £30.00 each, the bank charged me £35.00 for each unpaid DD. 

It makes me sick to think they can't pay a DD due to insufficient funds but they can sure as hell debit my account by £70.00 for their kitty.

Thankfully my employers wrote a letter and I had the charges reversed, but how many people don't bother and just accept that their banks can make these ludricrus charges.

I think banks are profiteering from folk that have no or little money. 

[Will]

I sympathise with you Dotty, but whoever it was who made the error or the bad payment should be responsible for refunding the charges. At least that's the principle I have always used, and I have received a fair number of rubber cheques etc in my time, as well as having banks 'lose' quite substantial sums of money during transfers.

I still don't agree with those who keep a good balance in their accounts having to subsidise those who don't - it's been a long time since I paid charges for everyday banking in either Britain or France and for Britain to return to that primitive system would truly be a retrograde step. After all, I let the banks earn a bit more interest on my money than they pay me, so why should I have to pay them for the privilege of writing out a cheque, or paying money in? I think that First Direct were only talking of re-introducing charges for those who did not keep a reasonable credit in their accounts, and I don't really have a problem with that.

And as for French banking, that really is primitive. It was only recently that the heavy charges for closing accounts were done away with - they got you both ways, because you were charged a fee for having an inactive account, but charged again for closing it. There are plenty more silly charges that many of them impose, and dubious practices they employ (in all countries) to fatten their balance sheets still further.

[Russethouse]

The First Direct case was really farcical - one way of avoiding the charges was to have a First Direct credit card, you don't have to use it, just have it !

I think the legislation in question at the moment prevents the banks for profiting on things like overdraft charges, they are still entitled to charge a realistic fee (actual cost) though, so in theory Will, there shouldn't be any need for you to subsidise anyone.

I think that account charges may come in, eventually especially if and when the cheque clearing times are shortened which I think is a much bigger consumer concern..

 

[Judith]

[quote user="Will "]

 I think that First Direct were only talking of re-introducing charges for those who did not keep a reasonable credit in their accounts, and I don't really have a problem with that.

[/quote]

Will

The problem with First Direct is what is considered "reasonable" - I bank with them, and it is not a dormant account (some previous post mentioned that one!) and my whole salary goes in (and often out again more quickly than they'd like admittedly) but they do not deem what I earn as sufficient to qualify for free banking - and that is what leaves a very bad taste in my mouth.  Taking out another product with them will probably be my short-term answer (and no, I have not yet decided to stay with them long-term, but if I move it will be at my pace and not theirs), and whilst I would not like to return to the days of banking fees (which is what got me to First Direct in the first place) I feel that the banks make money out of the delays they build into the processing system, and if they can't cut their coat according to their cloth (sorry mixed metaphor) as we have to do, they deserve to loose customers.

I can (with some degree of disatisfaction) cope with the French banking fee - at perhaps £2 a month I can live with that - but an English bank charging £120 a year for the privilege of holding a bank account with them (ie £10 a month) will have to do a great deal more - and what is on offer for First Direct is not worth £120 to me.  I will watch developments with interest.

[Unknown]

Will

I totally agree that 'you' shouldn't have to subsidise anyone's banking charges. 

RH has pointed out another valid point, the time it takes to clear funds in an account.  This is such a joke.  Again from experiance, I know the banks can clear cheques, transfers etc same day, same moment in fact.  The reason they don't is purely because they choose not to.  When I make a payment from my UK online banking the money leaves my account immediately, why does it then take 3 days for the money to appear on the payees account.

One thing about the French banking system I do like, is when you pay in a cheque or write one out, as soon as it hits your account its cleared, or at least this is my experience.

[Benjamin]

Dotty

I don't remember where I heard this (I may even have dreamt it) but as from November 2007 UK banks will make same day transfers.

What will happen to clearing cheques I have no idea.

[Cat]

You didn't dream it Benjamin http://technology.guardian.co.uk/online/businesssolutions/story/0,,1517207,00.html

[Will]

The delay in clearing credits was exactly what I had in mind when referring to 'other banking practices' above. Under the French system, it is difficult, if not impossible, to bounce a cheque so I understand how they can credit the funds to your account almost instantly. Non-French cheques, or transfers from other banks or other countries, are a rather different matter, though, in my experience. Having had plenty of rubber cheques I can sympathise with the British banks to a certain degree, but it should be possible in this day and age to verify the status of a cheque rather sooner than the current 3-4 working days.

I find that with my NatWest account, if I ask for a balance on line, it will normally include uncleared cheques and the overdraft limit - which can result in several thousand more than the true balance. This could be awkward if I didn't look a bit more closely. Or maybe that's exactly what the banks want, to encourage you to spend (and borrow) more.

I think I would tell First Direct what to do with their account in those circumstances - as I recall doing after 30 years-plus with  Lloyds when it went into seriously dumbed-down mode after merging with TSB.

The French system is slowly catching up, so let's hope the British system doesn't deteriorate to meet the French.

[Unknown]

Having just read the link re 1 day clearing, its about b lood y time. 

I believe when the electronic banking system is cut down to 1 day rather than 3, you will find fewer cheques will be written.  In the past 5 years I have probably sent 1 cheque a month, compared to the 10 a month previously.  I find my cheque books last me for an eternity now and with online banking its much easier to keep track of ones account.

Mind you some backs have very primitive online banking systems, where as my bank shows the balance in real time.