Chief Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 Just traded in a sports car for a 4X4. Neighbour who previously fawned over the sports car, passes comment about the 4X4 being unfriendly to the environment, and should not be allowed. He has no car, but uses taxis all the time (someone else's car) just like Ken in London i believe. He also flies on holiday several times a year, but thats okayReality:4x4 does 6 extra miles to the gallon, is 3 cm shorter than the sports car, and now allows me to carry all the family (so we have sold the second car we were running due to me working away from home, and now being back at home).Just wondered, when some peoples bigotry takes over them, do they ever really stop and look at the facts. Surely one car 300g/per km (or whatever they are measured in) is better than 2 at 275, not to mention the lessoned impact on congestion etc. Are facts like us driving into europe instead of flying assessed, or is this just enviro-fascism rearing its head without any real thought going into the debate. Guess there is much more to teh debate, but when are we going to get a balanced discussion on it. Why is it okay to pollute the environment, as long as you have a small car to do it? Surely pollution is bad fullstop. Intelligent debate only please, forget the stereotypes about BMW drivers, white van man, etc etc....lets have a good discussion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 I have run 4x4's for years now (Landies) - more for "necessity" than anything else as I tow a horse trailer. However, I must say that I don't use it day to day as it is undoubtedly much more costly to run than my little Jap roller skate - 30mpg as opposed to 55 - and therefore, one assumes, by its very nature more damaging to the environment. But there are days (here and in my rural home back in the UK) when it's a godsend - during icy and snowy weather - and many's the time I've ended up giving those without such transport lifts and tows in those circumstances. They are quite often the same people who moan about 4x4 gas guzzlers. Round here though, my old 110 is much admired by the farming population.One thing which I think everybody forgets is the cost to the environment of building new cars. It may in fact be better in environmental terms to run an ancient but inefficient engine in an old car, rather than buying a brand new, "greener" car anyway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Zoff Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 Couldn't agree more about the "new build" factor.People keep asking me why I haven't swapped my car for something newer and more economical. Apart from the cost to me of doing so, I doubt the fuel saving would offset the environmental impact of building a complete car. And unless I scrap a perfectly good vehicle, someone else would presumably be driving it around instead of me.A recent study came up with the conclusion that dishwashers were more environmentally friendly than hand-washing of dishes. It depended on the efficiency of the dishwasher but again seemed to ignore the energy and materials that went into making and supplying the machine. Same goes for home improvements to make houses "greener". Fine if done at the original build stage - I have never understood why we continued to build houses for so long using outdated methods - but I doubt the net advantage of converting things later. If every NEW house had solar panels instead of roof tiles and walls made from modular blocks rather than bricks glued together with cement and coated with plaster, I suspect we would see some real energy savings at little or no extra cost. But ripping out what is already there and replacing it is a different matter.As to the original post, there can be little argument against using - and filling - one large vehicle than 2 smaller ones. I do though know a number of people with pristine 4x4s (and other large cars) which rarely carry more than the driver, and even more rarely, I suspect, make any practical use whatever of the 4-wheel drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugsy Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 [quote user="Alan Zoff"]................................................................................................................., and even more rarely, I suspect, make any practical use whatever of the 4-wheel drive.[/quote][IMG]http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p211/Bugbear2/JeepatBeaulea.jpg[/IMG]Hmmmmmm..........................................................[:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Posted September 21, 2007 Author Share Posted September 21, 2007 [quote user="Alan Zoff"]Couldn't agree more about the "new build" factor.People keep asking me why I haven't swapped my car for something newer and more economical. Apart from the cost to me of doing so, I doubt the fuel saving would offset the environmental impact of building a complete car. And unless I scrap a perfectly good vehicle, someone else would presumably be driving it around instead of me.A recent study came up with the conclusion that dishwashers were more environmentally friendly than hand-washing of dishes. It depended on the efficiency of the dishwasher but again seemed to ignore the energy and materials that went into making and supplying the machine. Same goes for home improvements to make houses "greener". Fine if done at the original build stage - I have never understood why we continued to build houses for so long using outdated methods - but I doubt the net advantage of converting things later. If every NEW house had solar panels instead of roof tiles and walls made from modular blocks rather than bricks glued together with cement and coated with plaster, I suspect we would see some real energy savings at little or no extra cost. But ripping out what is already there and replacing it is a different matter.As to the original post, there can be little argument against using - and filling - one large vehicle than 2 smaller ones. I do though know a number of people with pristine 4x4s (and other large cars) which rarely carry more than the driver, and even more rarely, I suspect, make any practical use whatever of the 4-wheel drive. [/quote]To be honest, whether or not the 4 wheel drive gets used or not is pretty irrelevent. In my case, and i suspect many others, i bought size first, looks second and the 4 wheel drive is just a bonus of sorts. 4 wheel drives don't have to go off road, they are simply capable of doing so if the driver wanted to. How many mountain bikes have you seen on a mountain???? Cars with towbars that never tow anything??? etc etc..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Zoff Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 A client of mine owned a Mitsubishi 3000GT (a very fast sports car). It had a wing on the back which changed angle according to the speed the car was travelling, supposedly to maintain maximum downforce (grip). The problem was that this only had any measurable advantage when the car was travelling at over 130mph. When I mentioned this and that he was unlikely to be travelling at this speed in anything other than perfect conditions on a very straight autobahn - and that he didn't even take the car abroad - he said "I know. But I just love the fact that it is there." And when the arrival of his 2 children forced him to change to something more practical, I almost bought it from him.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugsy Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 What model have you bought Chief ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchie Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 And is a bike better for the planet than a car ? I intend to get a bike .. [;-)]Sorry if Im off topic .. [:$] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Posted September 22, 2007 Author Share Posted September 22, 2007 [quote user="Frenchie"] And is a bike better for the planet than a car ? I intend to get a bike .. [;-)]Sorry if Im off topic .. [:$][/quote]Does the bike your after carry 4 people and suitcases in comfort across continents [;-)] Additionally, if you have a lifestyle and locale that grants you the luxury of only needing to have a bike, i am genuinely pleased for you. I suspect that you are in a very snmall minority though. Reality of life for most of us, is that some form of mechanised transport is a necessity, not a luxury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Posted September 22, 2007 Author Share Posted September 22, 2007 [quote user="Bugbear"]What model have you bought Chief ?[/quote]X5 3.0 diesel. 7 seats (reduces need for 2 cars when with friends) but i don't have any friends, so i guess they won't get used [;-)]. Picking up on teh new build discussions above as well. This car will be good for in excess of 300,000 miles, and will not need replacing at anywhere near the rate of replacement for so called enviro-friendly cars, provided it is looked after (it will be, i am sad like that). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchie Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 Well, wouldn't be too comfy would it ?[IMG]http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r20/regine79/Honda-FireBlade.jpg[/IMG] Just for the days when I dont need the car..I intend to save up to be avble to buy it, and I have a small car.. Don't think I am that " priviledged" .. [:(] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Posted September 22, 2007 Author Share Posted September 22, 2007 [quote user="Frenchie"]Well, wouldn't be too comfy would it ?[IMG]http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r20/regine79/Honda-FireBlade.jpg[/IMG] Just for the days when I dont need the car..I intend to save up to be avble to buy it, and I have a small car.. Don't think I am that " priviledged" .. [:(][/quote]You should go for something with a bit more power Frenchie, or you might get left behind by the caravanners... [Www] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchie Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 Enough for me for my first bike. And someone recommanded that bike.. [:)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchie Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 [quote user="Frenchie"]Enough for me for my first bike. And someone recommanded it.. [:)][/quote]The goal is not speed, it is FUN [;-)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Posted September 22, 2007 Author Share Posted September 22, 2007 [quote user="Frenchie"] [quote user="Frenchie"]Enough for me for my first bike. And someone recommanded it.. [:)][/quote]The goal is not speed, it is FUN [;-)][/quote]Not sure i would want the sort of friend that recommends a Fireblade as a first bike....lol [Www] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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