Help! Very confused by avis a tiers detenteur

[Bivis]

Hello all.

I have a small problem and I cant find anyone to explain to me. Hence, i am posting here.

I am an expatriate and i recently have moved out of france, but kept my bank account there to pay taxes of last year (like income tax 2016).

One day it came in my mail a letter called "notification davis a tiers detenteur" with the value of 800 EUR. Upon contacting the tax office, i have been told that this value was because i didnt pay my habitation taxes of the previous year (which i never recieved in the first place), so they took it from my bank account. Indeed, when i checked my bank acc, the money had been taken away.

Now the funny part: After a lengthy exchange with my tax office, it turned out that the tax due amounts only to 150 eur (and not the 800 from my ATD), meaning that they made a mistake. And the tax office wants me to make them a bank transfer of this amount (150 EUR). Everytime i write them asking why i have to pay them more, they just answer back that i need to pay them the 150 eur!

However, I dont want to do this, as they already took 800 eur of my bank account (presumably to pay the taxes due). So why the heck would i have to pay them more? If anything, they should return me the difference!

Could anyone explain me what is the course of action i need to take? The tax office employees have been very unhelpful, and it doesnt help that i am not a native french speaker (nor i am in france at the moment).

Or should I just accept that the government stole 1000 eur from me?

[suein56]

Bivis wrote :

However, I dont want to do this, as they already took 800 eur of my bank account (presumably to pay the taxes due). So why the heck would i have to pay them more? If anything, they should return me the difference!

Perhaps you owed them the 800€ for last year and the 150€ is for the part of this year you were here before you left the country.

Sue

[Bivis]

Thanks for your repply Sue.

That is not possible, because i only lived in France in 2016.

Hence, i own them only one tax.

[woolybanana]

That will depend on the exact date you left France. If after the 1st Jan 2017, then you may well owe them for the year or part year.

My advice if you cannot get to see them face to face is to pay the debt and then claim it back; the system probably does not know any other way of operating.

[idun]

What are the exact dates you lived in France.

These taxes are only due if you live in the property on the 1st of January to the 31st of December. When the next year starts.

You must have paperwork to justify exact dates, ie a contract if you rented.

IF you can justify only renting or owning, at other dates during 2016, then you should owe nothing although maybe if you rented then there may be something in your contract stating that you owe something.

This link is live.

https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F42

[Bivis]

I was in france from sept 2015 to sept 2016.

I am sure that the atd sent to me concerns the housing fee 2016.

And i am also sure that the housing fee was supposed to be 150 eur, while the adt removed 800 from my account.

What i dont understand is how the atd works. If the government is holding my money and will release me when i pay them the 150 eur due.

I guess ill pay and give up on the money. I hope i never have to return to france...

[idun]

If this is taxe d'habitation, then it could easily have been 800€ for the year, that does not sound too much to me, because you will have been charged for the full year of 2016 because that is how these taxes work in France.

Occupation 1st of January and you are liable for the full years.

The 150€ could easily be for getting your rubbish bins emptied.

Try calling again. Don't be confrontational, just sound pleading, saying that you are very confused and have no idea what these amounts are.

Sadly from what you state, this could well be correct. Incidentally, your tv licence could well be included in that...... and that will be about 120€ a year or there abouts.

[idun]

The ATD, is the state's method of getting unpaid bills.

I do not know whether they still can, but in the olde days, even if you had closed the account, they used to be able to reopen it and debit the newly reopened account.

[Bivis]

Thank you all for your answers.

The french tax system is still a mystery for me.

I was thinking that the french administration made an error, blocked the wrong amount of my bank account and then demanded a payment to release my money.

I say this because the tax office explicitly told me that my TH2016 was 150 eur, and in my adt is explicitly written TH2016 for 800 eur.

I was just so confused because in my head it makes no sense to block someones money to force them to pay you. (The money is "preleve par nlockage atd", so i cant use it).

Ill take the advice given here, transfer them what they are asking and try to get my money back before the end of the year.

[idun]

Bearing in mind that is the property tax for a full year, 150euros is a very small amount.

If you look at some other posts on here, you will see people have been getting extra bills for about 150euros for their rubbish to be taken, a bill they have not had beforehand​. This on top of their property tax.

If you are going to call again, and they will be open tomorrow try your Tresor Public or Centre des Impots, you should find their number on pagesjaunes.fr and tell them you are confused, sometimes being apologetic for not understanding the french system and humbly asking for help works best.

Not that I have never got stroppy with civil servants, but I sometimes have to use very different tactics.

Good luck, I would love to know how you do.