Renault Megane hatchback diesel

[Will]

I knew somebody in England who bought a Dacia when they started importing them. It was truly awful. Then, they were old-model Renaults put together in Romania. Worse than a Lada, which then were old-model Fiats from Russia. Dacias now are supposed to be better and more up-to-date now, but they are still built, with cheap labour, down to a price. OK I suppose if you must have something new and don't want to pay for it, but I'd much rather have a 2-3 year old example of the real thing, especially if buying in England where you can take advantage of the greater initial depreciation.

[Anton Redman]

[quote user="LyndaandRichard"]It's something most people never seem to take into account the fact that diesels are significantly more expensive to buy. Also parts and labour tend to be more expensive too. It's not just about fuel. Of course a diesel engine would last longer generally than a petrol, but it would depend how long you intend keeping it.

I dare say if you are doing lots of k's in a year (perhaps 40k plus), then diesels would be a cheaper alternative.

I compared buying a 206cc diesel to the petrol and found it would take about 10 years before the diesel started to be the cheaper option.

[/quote]

If you negotiate hard you find the extra on a diesel tends to go away. 20 years ago the article in Car that stopped me buying the magazine was a word for word reprint of a Ford press release that said that unlike VW they had introduced special much stronger blocks for their diesel. The PR actually meant that unlike VW their blocks flexed when you tried running them at 17 to 1 compression.

Also when you come and sell a diesel 206, 0ther than a cc, it will be worth more than a petrol equivalent. Much as I like the cc it is a very bad car for comparing the economics of  diesel and petrol.

Much to my amazement one of the mechanics at my Pug dealers would be prepared to buy my fully loaded 306 HDI RHD despite 200,000 miles for much more than I could dream of getting in the UK   

[Bugsy]

[quote user="Iceni"]

How about a Dacia -

[/quote]

Personally, I'd rather walk......................................[:)]

[virginia.c]

hhhmm.  Ok then.  Let's find an alternative to the Megane.  Something economical to run, reliable etc, but with good acceleration and fun to drive.  Any ideas?? 

Oh, and did you know that car tax has gone up already?  I thought the latest hikes were due in 2009.  Not so.  I've just had my renewal through and it's gone up by 25%.  As has my blood pressure[:@]

[virginia.c]

oops.  Make that 33.333%.  Now I'm even more hacked off[:(]

[Mr Coeur de Lion]

[quote user="Anton Redman"]

[quote user="LyndaandRichard"]It's something most people never seem to take into account the fact that diesels are significantly more expensive to buy. Also parts and labour tend to be more expensive too. It's not just about fuel. Of course a diesel engine would last longer generally than a petrol, but it would depend how long you intend keeping it.

I dare say if you are doing lots of k's in a year (perhaps 40k plus), then diesels would be a cheaper alternative.

I compared buying a 206cc diesel to the petrol and found it would take about 10 years before the diesel started to be the cheaper option.

[/quote]

If you negotiate hard you find the extra on a diesel tends to go away. 20 years ago the article in Car that stopped me buying the magazine was a word for word reprint of a Ford press release that said that unlike VW they had introduced special much stronger blocks for their diesel. The PR actually meant that unlike VW their blocks flexed when you tried running them at 17 to 1 compression.

Also when you come and sell a diesel 206, 0ther than a cc, it will be worth more than a petrol equivalent. Much as I like the cc it is a very bad car for comparing the economics of  diesel and petrol.

Much to my amazement one of the mechanics at my Pug dealers would be prepared to buy my fully loaded 306 HDI RHD despite 200,000 miles for much more than I could dream of getting in the UK   

[/quote]

As you can also negotiate hard on a petrol car too.

Yep, you will get more if you sell a diesel. But of course when you buy your next diesel, you will have to pay more than the petrol equivalent, so that argument is irrelevant.

[sid]

Virginia

I have a Megane Estate 1.9dci (diesel) and it's now 4 years old and done 80,000 kms, never let me down, and I get over 1000kms to every tank full of fuel. I'd certainly have another. This is my first diesel-engined car in 40 years of motoring.

There was little difference in the price compared to the petrol version when I bought it. I've checked with the dealer (importer) I used and the difference today is 2200€. (that is, the diesel is more expensive, comparing the 2 litre 135 petrol against the 2 litre150 diesel). There is a better secondhand market for diesel vehicles; just have a look how many of your neighbours run petrol-engined cars, not many I'll wager. My experience has been that servicing here is extremely reasonable. The interval is 30k kms and I paid 120€ for my last service at my local (non-franchised) garage... the car is out of warranty now.

The fuel cost calculations are worth examining. I've already more than saved the extra cost of the car. In 80k kms a petrol-engined car would have needed more fill-ups. I reckon my car will have had 76 tanks-full, whereas a petrol engine would have had 123 tanks-full. (assuming 650kms to a tank for petrol against the 1050kms which I normally get for diesel). If the prices of both fuels were the same it's a substantial saving, but while diesel is cheaper the saving is even greater. Even though the differential between diesel and petrol has narrowed over the last 12 months, I calculate that I've saved at least 3500€ on fuel. 

I'm hoping that I'll be able to run this car for several more years yet!

Sid

[Anton Redman]

 Yep, you will get more if you sell a diesel. But of course when you buy your next diesel, you will have to pay more than the petrol equivalent, so that argument is irrelevant.

No it is not the the figure that matters is total cost per mile over period of ownership, with either interest added at the rate you would have earned on the money you spent on the car or actual interest paid.

[virginia.c]

that's very interesting Sid, particularly because it's 4 years old and you've had no major problems with it.  The one I was looking at last week was three years old with reasonable mileage - and what looked like a pretty good price.  You get a lot of kms to a tank too.  On that basis I'd easily get to 24 on one tank full and have enough for the next week too.

Thanks for taking the time to do all the workings out for me, much appreciated

[Weedon]

Interesting that  posters appear surprised to hear of, for example, 4 year old vehicles having done 80,000 kms with no major problems.  Nowadays engines should be capable of many hundreds of thousands of kms without many problems, provided the engine oil and filter is regularly changed, I sometimes think that manufacturers stretch the servicing times a little too long in order to make the running costs seem much less.  It also helps that the vehicle has done regular long trips in order for the oil to have run at a good working temperature.  The car that just does a short run to the shops and back may not be as reliable in the long run.

Once upon a time engines used to have a decoke every 10,000 miles and might be well past their sell by date by the time they had reached 70,000 miles.  Getting the collets back in on a side valve engine after a decoke teaches you to manipulate your fingers into all sorts of tight spots.....it's probably the only skill I have retained. 

[sid]

Good point about the service intervals, Weedon. My local garage recommends an oil change at 20,000kms, which I have opted for.

Besides the decokes you used to have to change the spark plugs every 5000 miles too. That's something else you don't have with a diesel engine, although I did have to change one of the glow-plugs at 50,000 km.

Sid

[Mr Coeur de Lion]

I doubt spark plugs are very expensive.

Anyway, I think the moral is to do the sums. Work out how many k's a year you are likely to drive and see if it comes out better for you. I've been devil's advocate here, and it is always best to have both sides of the story.

[virginia.c]

that's the thing L and R isn't it.  Just how many miles.  If it were possible I'd have my bags packed to be there pretty much permanently, but that's not going to be possible for a while.  I do know that in the early days at least, we'll be carrying loads of stuff backwards and forwards, which means driving.  I think the current very high price of diesel makes it more difficult to choose diesel over petrol at the moment - wonder if that will change?

All advice very helpful - many thanks to everyone who's contributed.

[Weedon]

If you are going to be carrying lots of stuff backwards and forwards, why don't you do what I did.  I bought a cheap LWB semi-high Transit van.  I then bolted some lengths of 4x2 on the roof to carry allsorts of stuff over.  I bet you couldn't get 40 sq metres of wooden flooring inside a Megane, mine all went onto the roof.  My van carried tons of stuff over for a couple of years, then I sold it for about £150 less than I bought it for.  Once you come to France you can then choose a vehicle to suit once you are here. 

[sid]

No, spark plugs are not expensive! [:D]

And No, I wouldn't attempt to carry all that flooring in my Megane estate.  [blink]

I recommend getting a trailer! Everyone seems to have one here. And it doesn't matter what car you have, you can carry sand, cement, wood ...anything!

Bon route

Sid