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Carol Thatcher and the G word.


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[quote user="Weedon"]

[quote user="Frederick"]Wooly ....you can buy your gollywog in Les Sables-D'Olonne.....there is a toy shop there that sells them ![/quote]

That's fine provided it is displayed in a prominent position,  you can then simply point to it and in a very loud brit voice say, "I will have one of those."  But what if you have to ask for it by name? 

[/quote]

 

 perhaps "Golly gosh, can I buy that golly?[:D]

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[quote user="Clair"][quote user="puzzled"]I think this article is very good.http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/feb/06/bbc-race-golliwog[/quote]
As a person who has a different cultural background, I found this one useful:

A repugnant caricature that should never be toyed with


[/quote]

Quote from that article:

'The days of the golliwog were numbered with the decline in that minstrelsy.'

Looks just like something my favourite authoress Amanda McKittrick Ros would have written.

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fully paid for eh?  As opposed to ..................


Tony F

Dordogne (24)

Huguenot Trails

By the way Tony what do you know about Mathematics , Statistics , Probability and Risk Management
.

No mortgage and in good condition too. I visit France at least every six to eight weeks. Want to know more about my connection with France ?

Relevance of Tom Adkins article to Topic on G word is Political Correctness and the stupidity of being PC.

.

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[quote user="Puzzled"]

I do and try and have a look at a number of UK news websites. It does almost seem that there is a concerted effort by the DM and its readers to have certain words that died out with ' Love thy neighbour' reintroduced as acceptable mainstream terms. 

Referring to a black tennis player as a gollywog, I don't know how that can't be racist. It may be harmless to those of us with whiteskin but I'm sure many people of afro caribbean origin growing up in the UK not that many years ago wouldn't agree. Bit like calling someone a 'paki' , it just isn't the same as Brit because for many people who had it shouted in their direction it was usually followed by 'f**k off back home'.

[/quote]

I think you hit the nail on the head. As a black man i find the use offensive, because i grew up asnd went to school with the words "f*ck off home you golliwog, nigger, coon, etc" ringing in my ears most days. I am sure that to the majority of white children growing up with me it was just a harmless toy, and i guess unless you were subject to the abuse, it is hard to understand. But for those who think it is a case of PC (whatever that is...figure it something to do with being polite and respectful to all, but who knows), feel free to call me a golliwog anytime, and i will feel at liberty to do my utmost to abuse, harass and intimidate you as well....no problem at all.
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 There is PC and there is PC

I have a relative with a lisp and I know her friends and family tease her unmercifully - why ? Because it is self inflicted, she had a tongue stud fitted, instant lisp ( I wonder if Carol Thatcher has one [:)] )

Sometimes when you deal with someone with disability it's only humour, sometimes black humour, that gets you through - it's bad enough being in that situation without having someone tell you what you should not think or feel and making you feel guilty if you admit anything less than 'snow white' feelings

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[quote user="Chief"][quote user="Puzzled"]

I do and try and have a look at a number of UK news websites. It does almost seem that there is a concerted effort by the DM and its readers to have certain words that died out with ' Love thy neighbour' reintroduced as acceptable mainstream terms. 

Referring to a black tennis player as a gollywog, I don't know how that can't be racist. It may be harmless to those of us with whiteskin but I'm sure many people of afro caribbean origin growing up in the UK not that many years ago wouldn't agree. Bit like calling someone a 'paki' , it just isn't the same as Brit because for many people who had it shouted in their direction it was usually followed by 'f**k off back home'.

[/quote] I think you hit the nail on the head. As a black man i find the use offensive, because i grew up asnd went to school with the words "f*ck off home you golliwog, nigger, coon, etc" ringing in my ears most days. I am sure that to the majority of white children growing up with me it was just a harmless toy, and i guess unless you were subject to the abuse, it is hard to understand. But for those who think it is a case of PC (whatever that is...figure it something to do with being polite and respectful to all, but who knows), feel free to call me a golliwog anytime, and i will feel at liberty to do my utmost to abuse, harass and intimidate you as well....no problem at all.[/quote]

Chief, you have given me some very real insight this evening.  Thank you.  I always thought I understood but this is upfront and personal and I am learning.

I, too, have faced discrimination, etc.  But then, I always think it's the fault (and loss) of the person who discriminates and not the one who is discriminated against.

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Russethouse

Your relative has a choice, ie not to wear a stud, your daughter has a choice not to bite her nails.

I cannot believe that you could even consider replying as above after Chief's comment. You DO have NO idea.

It is beyond the beyond of insensitivity. Absolutely incredible. And followed by a smiley!

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 Yes Odile you are right, but if you saw a few of us in a pub with my relative, taking the 'mick' you would think we were being very cruel, because you wouldn't know the facts.

And just for your information I have experience of living with someone with a disability and I know the very last thing I needed was someone telling me how I should feel or act, you may think it is laudable but I can tell you now that unless I and others in my family had felt free to express our exasperation or annoyance, often with humour ,we may have been totally unable to cope.

Being non PC allowed my family to keep going at a time of great stress - I'm sorry if that doesn't fit your  'Daily Mail ' mould, but it's real life

You are the one who is incredible - just who gave you the right to be  judge and jury ?

 

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You have totally ignored Chief's comment and explanation about his experiences and feelings.

Of course I understand the need to laugh at tragedy within a family context. We often do that here in the face of adversity and tragedy, for instance when my mother-in-law's Alzeihmers got worse and she did the most incredible things, and when visiting my very elderly parents in their OAP home.

I have never read the Daily Mail I'm afraid, so I can't judge.

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There ARE occasions when we all have to agree to disagree.

Just had one of those occasions with the OH.  Mind you, I could hit him over the head with something heavy and hard.  But there again, it's called diversity.

Odile, I do understand your point of view totally and you are, fortunately, very well able to express it in no uncertain terms.

Wish I have your clarity of vision.  I, too, will not temper my views just to please someone else or even to keep the peace.  On the other hand, I accept totally that you are only responsible for your own actions and what others do and say and think are their responsibility.

It's not a very comfortable viewpoint.  I wish I truly believed that some gifted and unusual individual could change things and opinions but I very much doubt it!

 

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I agree Sweet. Please don't it him over the head as he already has got sore knees. I had dropped the subject as it was going no where.

But having read Chief's poignant comment - I was incensed by the extreme insensitivity of the reply I bid you Good Night.

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Night-night, Odile.  The world do need people who do not comply and will not shut up and go away.  Six million Jews could have done with such people in the days of Hitler and the Holocaust.

Odile, I salute you and I guess you already know that Chief's post touched me in a very tender spot.  It hurts to care.

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Odile, I was replying to you not Chief as is clear, and the smiley was used in context.

Chiefs comment is a completley separate matter.

When are you going to admit that people are allowed their own emotions, whether they be PC or not, you say you have used humour to get through stress and so have I, but I also know that  had I not been able to confide some not very PC emotions about symptons a relative living with us had, I'd have probably imploded - and who would that have helped?

 

 

 

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Sometimes I regret posting.It seems we don't need Carol or the Beeb to bring out the worst in us. I do believe that the little lady  at  Liberty seems to revel at the slightest excuse to bring up the Rascist rant and it seems that the end result just makes people more fed up of the whole subject.

Regards.

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[quote user="odile"]I agree Sweet. Please don't it him over the head as he already has got sore knees. I had dropped the subject as it was going no where.

But having read Chief's poignant comment - I was incensed by the extreme insensitivity of the reply I bid you Good Night.

[/quote]

Odile.

Thanks for your comments and understanding. The other side of this coin in a sense is that by having outlets where people can demonstrate their ignorance (not directed at any posters here) allows a reasoned and challenging debate. The thatcher woman has exposed herself to everyone. We all now know where her understanding of the world she lives in rests. Never thought much of her mothers policies, but i am she she brought her up to know a little better.

With regard to those who state she made private comments, i would say this. There is no such thing as a private conversation, email, phone call, natter in a pub over a pint anymore. Once it is out and heard it can travel anywhere. I personally never say anything to anyone that i seriously don't want repeating. I never put a single word in an email that i am not prepared to have read, or in a text message either.

The reality is that we truly have no idea where our information goes......... :-)
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 I am not defending any of them but didn't Jade Goody make her statement in anger where as from what I understand Prince Charles and Prince Harry were referring to good friends and it was more affectionately used. (rightly or wrongly, but as at least Sooty seemed happy with the situation, is it anyone elses business ?) 

 Carol Thatcher has had mixed reviews and that may be because the whole area of what she actually said is shrouded in mystery, but it doesn't sound as if she was angry - may be she thought the guy was cute.... I doubt we'll ever know

Just a theory....may be it alters public perception.

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[quote user="Chief"][quote user="odile"]I agree Sweet. Please don't it him over the head as he already has got sore knees. I had dropped the subject as it was going no where.
But having read Chief's poignant comment - I was incensed by the extreme insensitivity of the reply I bid you Good Night.
[/quote] Odile. Thanks for your comments and understanding. The other side of this coin in a sense is that by having outlets where people can demonstrate their ignorance (not directed at any posters here) allows a reasoned and challenging debate. The thatcher woman has exposed herself to everyone. We all now know where her understanding of the world she lives in rests. Never thought much of her mothers policies, but i am she she brought her up to know a little better. With regard to those who state she made private comments, i would say this. There is no such thing as a private conversation, email, phone call, natter in a pub over a pint anymore. Once it is out and heard it can travel anywhere. I personally never say anything to anyone that i seriously don't want repeating. I never put a single word in an email that i am not prepared to have read, or in a text message either. The reality is that we truly have no idea where our information goes......... :-)[/quote]

This fear of the unknown is what allowed fascism of the left and right to flourish.

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[quote user="Russethouse"]

from what I understand Prince Charles and Prince Harry were referring to good friends and it was more affectionately used. (rightly or wrongly, but as at least Sooty seemed happy with the situation, is it anyone elses business ?) 

[/quote]Chief is in a better position to answer this than I, but what would Sooty's life and career be worth if he told Charlie Boy not to address him by such a racist epithet?  Of course he and Harry's mate have to appear to be "OK" with it.  No non white would be happy in the army if he were not willing at least to put up with this kind of thing as it is clearly condoned in many parts of the armed services, thus Harry's so called friend puts up with it - he has little choice given his chosen career.  Yes, they put up with it and probably laugh it off, but deep down, do we really know for sure that they are "happy" with a situation where it is acceptable to call them names?

Sorry, I don't care what the rest of you think, to me it is not now, never has been, and never will be, acceptable to call people unkind names which reflect their race, creed, colour, sex, or sexual orientation.  And I just don't get this "words don't hurt" idea.  How many people have been really upset by things said in this very place?  Enough to prove that old addage wrong anyway.

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 but what would Sooty's life and career be worth if he told Charlie Boy not to address him by such a racist epithet

Why would it have made a difference ?

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/2009/01/14/sooty-defends-prince-charles-over-his-racist-nickname-91466-22689552/

It looks he was a successful business man without Prince Charles patronage

 I don't condone it, it's just a theory , I suspect it was the fact that Jade Goody used racist terms with anger that made other  people so outraged

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[quote user="cooperlola"]Chief is in a better position to answer this than I, but what would Sooty's life and career be worth if he told Charlie Boy not to address him by such a racist epithet?  Of course he and Harry's mate have to appear to be "OK" with it.  No non white would be happy in the army if he were not willing at least to put up with this kind of thing as it is clearly condoned in many parts of the armed services, thus Harry's so called friend puts up with it - he has little choice given his chosen career.  Yes, they put up with it and probably laugh it off, but deep down, do we really know for sure that they are "happy" with a situation where it is acceptable to call them names?

Sorry, I don't care what the rest of you think, to me it is not now, never has been, and never will be, acceptable to call people unkind names which reflect their race, creed, colour, sex, or sexual orientation.  And I just don't get this "words don't hurt" idea.  How many people have been really upset by things said in this very place?  Enough to prove that old addage wrong anyway.

[/quote]

This is the most sensible reply I have read on this thread, and I think an appropriate post to put this whole thing to bed. I would guess that all the replies that seem to think it's ok to use these terms, are from white members of the forum? That says a lot about them.

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Totally agree Russethouse, the assumption that racism is always directed from the majority towards the minority is also totally wrong.

In fact that 'guess' (i would guess that all replies ....are from white members) is in itself a racist comment if you want to get petty. 

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