NormanH Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 (This is a new post which comes out of another thread where I reacted a bit harshly)f there is to be an 'Other' section I would prefer it to deal withreal news or major issues.I confess to being irritated sometimes on this Forum (which is theFrance Forum on Living France) with the lack of interest in topicsabout France, and the fascination with UK personalities and trivia. For example generally speaking a post about Gordon Brown will get manymore replies than one about President Sarkozy or my recent one aboutOlivier Besancenot.There have been recent threads to which I have contributed or startedabout things such as: Comparing Bank charges across different French BanksFinding out how your local hospital or clinic scores on MRSA typeinfectionsPresident Sarkozy's address about the 'crise'Olivier Besancenot (who as a poll today's Le Monde shows is consideredto be the best opponent to Sarkozy by 23% of the FrenchThese all seem to be serious topics worthy of consideration by peoplewith an interest or a property in France, but all have had almost noreplies, whilst the Carole Thatcher thread has reached 30 PAGES.I feel that for a Forum mainly about France this represents at the veryleast an imbalance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugsy Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I can't help feeling that you're missing the point N, in that the vast majority of members on here are of UK origin. Simply leaving the UK and moving to France does not remove the interest in ones country of birth.There are many on here, myself include, who have strong emotions/feelings about the way the UK appears to be slowly 'going down the toilet' and this is reflected in the many posts on the subject. Gary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clair Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 People discuss what is familiar to them. Topics about France which do not deal with practical matters do tend to be less frequented on the forum, but my feeling is that these topics require some a degree of knowledge of the language for posters here to understand and discuss them. I view this as the main hurdle, but I may be underestimating the level of fluency [:)].In previous discussions, it has come across that not everyone reads orwatches French news, local or national. Speaking personally, I find theFrench TV news stilted and over-scripted, which irritates me and I tendto get my fix over the net (I posted about Imooty a while back).There is also a degree of bullying by some posters, who do not seem to be able to accept that not everyone shares their view and express this in a personal and confrontational manner (many PMs express this view). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerdesal Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 NormanH,This is only my opinion.The Forum is about France and things French for people in or interested in France and things French.There are many sub-sections of the Forum but one such is for Non-French topics, this I believe does give the balance you wish. That section allows topics to be raised and discussed that are of interest to forum members but are not specific/ related/applicable to France.The fact that your specific France related topics were not particularly subscribed to is because forum members obviously were not interested in them, that's freedom of choice. That same freedom of choice is indicated in the response to (for example) the Thatcher story, the Human rights in Islam thread and even the long running 'listening to music' thread.Forum members will, and should, discuss what is of interest to them. You appear (to me) to want restriction to that freedom rather than balance of thread opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I think Clair has a point and that understanding the nuances of French politics does require a pretty good comprehension of not only the language but also the consitution and history of France. You may get it Norman, but not everybody does. What is more, until we have lived here for five years and have jumped through the required hoops to get French nationality, we cannot vote. They could join a policital party but that is not for everybody. Not many bother to join a party in the country of their birth - let alone one they can't vote in.I venture to suggest also, that many people (the "floating voter " if you will) vote according to the affects of policies on his or her purse. The majority of those who post on here are either paid by the UK or are both paid and taxed there. Thus the politics and policies of the UK still greatly influence their lives. And they can vote there still and thus have a say in how their money and/or taxes are handled. Not so for many in France - at least not so many on an Anglo-French forum. A lot of us are retired on UK based pensions don't forget - that's why we have so much time on our hands to post.It would be nice to be able to tell everybody to be interested in what interests us - but it ain't going to happen. It's a forum; people will discuss what interests them.And as far as the Thatcher thread is concerned - to my mind it's about racism; or at the very least the use of racist language. That's what interests me, and it's a subject as relevant in France as in the UK - perhaps even more so. About Ms T herself, I couldn't really care too much and I have never seen the programme in question, nor the other one she was on. Her relevance is simply symbolic to the topic, as far as I am concerned. And I'll discuss it if I feel like it, thanks a lot - if you don't want to read it, that is your choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Coeur de Lion Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 [quote user="cooperlola"]I venture to suggest also, that many people (the "floating voter " if you will) vote according to the affects of policies on his or her purse. The majority of those who post on here are either paid by the UK or are both paid and taxed there. Thus the politics and policies of the UK still greatly influence their lives. And they can vote there still and thus have a say in how their money and/or taxes are handled. Not so for many in France - at least not so many on an Anglo-French forum. A lot of us are retired on UK based pensions don't forget - that's why we have so much time on our hands to post.[/quote]I didn't know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchie Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I understand what Clair and Cooperlola mean, but at the same time I must admit that, as a French native , I am always a bit surprised at the lack of interest shown about big French political events such as Sarko's speech on TV the other day .Of course I understand that most of you can't vote, but you live in this country, and the decisions taken may affect you. ( social security, carte vitale, benefits, taxes, etc..............)It is not criticism from me, just my perception of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maricopa Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 [quote user="LyndaandRichard"][quote user="cooperlola"]And they can vote there[/quote]I didn't know that.[/quote]Yes, for up to 15 years after you leave the UK, you can register to vote at the last town you lived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clair Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Good point, Frenchie.Could it be that for many, ignorance is bliss? [8-)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 It's certainly true that there are communities of British in France, keen to recreate what they see as a better world reminiscent of rural England 40 years ago, where the idea of reading French newspapers or news on French TV and radio is enough to warrant excommunication. But they tend to use the forums that advertise themselves as expressly for "life in France, in English" rather than forums like this which do at least permit discussion of the real France.I think to insist on a certain degree of Frenchness in the discussions is a rather dangerous, over-zealous move, reminiscent of the Loi Toubon (there, Norman is that French enough for you? [:D]). After all, one of the attractions of a forum like this is that it doesn't - or shouldn't - take itself too seriously. Most of us are here more for entertainment than erudition.I'm a bit surprised Norman singled out this forum, which, with the exception of one or two smaller discussion groups, is probably the most 'French' of all the anglophone France forums. I suggest he takes a look at two others, particularly one which, established recently as a breakaway version of the other, is about 99% English subject matter. As discussing other forums is not encouraged here, if anybody doesn't know which ones I am referring to I would be happy to point them in the right direction if they send a PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoddy Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I think that powerdesal was right when he pointed out -"The Forum is about France and things French for people in or interested in France and things French."By no means all of our posters live in France, even part-time, and it is therefore inevitable that they will be more interested and knowledgeable about things in the UK. I would hope that there is room here for anyone who is interested in France, to whatever degree.Hoddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odile Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 30 pages - if some had agreed that any racist remarks are not acceptable in the 21st Century- and that she should have apologized unequivocally. end of. One page max. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Avery Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 [quote user="Bugbear"]I can't help feeling that you're missing the point N, in that the vast majority of members on here are of UK origin. Simply leaving the UK and moving to France does not remove the interest in ones country of birth.There are many on here, myself include, who have strong emotions/feelings about the way the UK ...........[/quote]I think Norman is spot on. Sometime back I posted and asked why certain people, feel the need to post a link to every article on the on line Mail/Telegraph etc that runs down the UK and/or its government, with never any links to anything in the slightest bit positive.Has it ever occurred to any of these so called patriots that those are interested in reading these UK papers already do so and the rest could not care a toss? With some people and the regularity of the posts, you wonder what their motivation is, it certainly isn't anything to do with living in France.For those who detest the Fascist supporting Daily Mail and Express and its two faced whingeing readers, sign up to Facebook and join the Anti Daily Mail coalition, 15,000 members and growing bigger daily, there is a "post of the day now" and guess where all the moans about "UK jobs for UK workers" are coming from......... well close........SPAIN[:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chessfou Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 [quote]Could it be that for many, ignorance is bliss?[Clair][/quote]I think it a great pity that Sir Arthur never set Philip Larkin's poem Ignorance to music*; he did set words by Joyce and Belloc, including the latter's Auvergnat, the poem concluding (note the very English 'pronunciation' of Clermont):The road went up, the road went down,And there the matter ended it.He broke his heart in Claremont town.At Pontgibaud they mended it.* Then we could have had "Ignorance is Bliss's ..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert the InfoGipsy Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I would suggest that anyone who seriously wants to discuss French current affairs should skip the anglophone fora and go straight to the French ones.It always puzzles me that people post specialised questions in fora like this rather than turning to the subject-specific ones. This goes for French politics as much as for the more obscure areas of computing or health. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 [quote user="Hoddy"]By no means all of our posters live in France, even part-time, and it is therefore inevitable that they will be more interested and knowledgeable about things in the UK. I would hope that there is room here for anyone who is interested in France, to whatever degree.Hoddy[/quote]We are amongst this group. I spend about 3-4 weeks a year in France my husband 2 maybe 3. Our work, pensions, health care etc are all based in the UK, our children are educated in the UK. We have no plans to retire to France. Very little of French politics affects us and what does is usually on UK TV. Even if it did affect us we can't change it as we can't vote in France. Hence many of the threads on the minutiae of French life have little relevance for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catalpa Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 [quote user="Frenchie"]...I am always a bit surprised at the lack of interest shown about big French political events such as Sarko's speech on TV the other day .[/quote]I've discussed his speech with French people - although I was surprised how many people have been surprised that we watched it (well, my OH did - I always fall asleep in front of the TV, French or British) because they (French people) didn't watch it. [8-)] But that's rural Normandy for you, I suspect. Or my tiny experience of rural Normandy, anyway. Just one of the many facets of France.Having missed it on tv I read about it in le Fig but I wouldn't then bother coming on a British Francophile forum to talk about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catalpa Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 [quote user="Will"]I suggest he takes a look at two others...[/quote]I believe he has in the past but his "tenancy agreement" turned out to be somewhat precarious. [;-)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maricopa Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 For me, it's all about choice. Even though I have income (correctly) taxed in the UK, I am actually far more interested in French news and politics, and therefore get the majority of my news from French TV. It is this interest that will eventually lead me to apply for French citizenship, thus allowing me to vote in my country of resdience. It is inevitable that on a forum consisting predominantly of Francophile British people, that there will be a lot of interest in events in the UK. That does not mean we all have to read them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weedon Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 There are a lot of familiar names to me on here, a good few of them I feel I have known for years, since about 2002/3 when I first started on here. In the early days I was in the habit of looking at and contributing to some of the specialised sections because like a lot of people I imagine I was keen to learn the answers to the things that were new to me then. Nowadays I am not so keen to read about other peoples plumbing problems or how to apply for a carte vitale because my plumbing is working fine now and I know how and where to pay my taxes. So nowadays I confine myself to looking at the Misc. section to read or to join in with stuff that is a bit light-hearted or to let off steam.Back in the UK I wasn't particularly interested in what was happening politically, certainly not to the extent of posting on any forums, even if I had the time then. Now, time is about the only thing I have in excess but I have little interest in using it to read about French politics as I imagine Sarkozy is getting a similar kicking to that of Gordon Brown anyway and that will always be the case with politics, or at least it should be.I have looked at one or two other forums but have never felt the need to move permanently to any of them as it suits me here the way it is. French stuff I can deal with during the day when I have to, on the forum I can dip into or out of it if I care to or not. As I think Will said, most of us come on here for entertainment and you shouldn't take it or yourself too seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony F Dordogne Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 [quote user="Ron Avery"][quote user="Bugbear"]I can't help feeling that you're missing the point N, in that the vast majority of members on here are of UK origin. Simply leaving the UK and moving to France does not remove the interest in ones country of birth.There are many on here, myself include, who have strong emotions/feelings about the way the UK ...........[/quote]I think Norman is spot on. [/quote]So do I. I read and participate in this Forum because sometimes I pick up snippets of information on health or driving that I don't know and occasionally get involved in the gardening thread.I tend to stay out of the political discussions because apart from J and I being paid our pensions/healthcare benefits in the UK, unless there is a seismic shift in Europe, we don't pay tax in the UK and having lived out lives having to be interested in UK politics because of our jobs, it's nice now NOT to have to be interested in them too much. We do watch UK news out of a passing interest, tho we also watch French news. We rarely buy UK newspapers (Herald Tribune if we buy any Anglophone newspaper, because they have such good and balanced coverage of France) instead we buy French newspapers, both local and national - Liberation or L'Humanite if Libo has sold out.My interests no longer are in the UK. We have family there - I don't really, one ot two people I don't see - and we visit J's family, tho less frequently now. We have as many French/non-Brit friends as Brit friends here. We've made the move here for the long haul, we regard ourselves an immigrants - as J's Mum was when she moved to the UK from India in 1944 and as her parents and ancestors were and as mine were when they left France in the 1640s - and part of our game plan was to become as immersed in French life as it's possible to be whilst appreciating we'll always be seen to some extent as 'other' - a great poem by Kipling by the way on this subject.Calling Brown or any UK politicians silly names does nothing to change their conduct and just ends up looking what it is, silly, after you've seen it a few times I just tend to ignore the threads/posters that are involved in the threads.If people feel so strongly about what's happening in UK politics after they've moved to France, why not join one of the Labour/Conservatives abroad groups and actually do something about it instead of ranting in here? If you have, whatever your political persuasion, good on you! Tho for me, as I live in France and French politicians actually have more control over my daily life, locally and internationally at Europe level, I'm happy to vote in those elections and get my French passport after 5 years so I can do something about who governs me here. And to join a French political party so I can get involved even more in the French political system, which I'm now allowed to do having been prohibited from doing so by legislation in the Uk for the last 25 years of my working life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugsy Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 removed...double post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugsy Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 [quote user="Ron Avery"]I think Norman is spot on. Sometime back I posted and asked why certain people, feel the need to post a link to every article on the on line Mail/Telegraph etc that runs down the UK and/or its government, with never any links to anything in the slightest bit positive.Has it ever occurred to any of these so called patriots that those are interested in reading these UK papers already do so and the rest could not care a toss? With some people and the regularity of the posts, you wonder what their motivation is, it certainly isn't anything to do with living in France.[/quote]Really, how wonderful that you can possibly know what all the members on this forum are thinking.Truly amazing...........................Perhaps you could share with us the winning numbers on next weeks lottery ?[quote user="Clair"]There is also adegree of bullying by some posters, who do not seem to be able toaccept that not everyone shares their view and express this in apersonal and confrontational manner [/quote]Oh so true............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Avery Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Can you deduct membership or donations to a UK political party from your French income so not pay any tax in France?[blink] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Is the Daily Mail a political party? I'll give you a subscription Ron if it is deductible!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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