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Honda F1 reincarnated as Brawn GP

just john

By just john
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DerekJ Newbie

DerekJ

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[quote user="Dog"]

[quote user="DerekJ"]And with Mercedes engines.

[/quote]

No change there then - they made the Honda engine before.

 

[/quote]

Did they? Are you sure?  Originally the defunct Honda team were hoping to get engines from Ferrari but that fell through and Mercedes are now in the frame.  As far as I was aware Honda have a history of their own engine development and a history of supplying them to other teams as well.

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just john Newbie

just john

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My worries about the team are the lack of development testing recently and RB's apparent lack of confidence in his drivers, he has previously mentioned alternative drivers, and you get the impression if he had the sponsorship he would hire afresh, I'd say that was a bit confidence denting for them. I'm disappointed that the Honda team has been a debacle so far and not done Jenson's chances much good.
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Théière Newbie

Théière

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[quote user="DerekJ"][quote user="Dog"]

[quote user="DerekJ"]And with Mercedes engines.
[/quote]

No change there then - they made the Honda engine before.

 

[/quote]

Did they? Are you sure?  Originally the defunct Honda team were hoping to get engines from Ferrari but that fell through and Mercedes are now in the frame.  As far as I was aware Honda have a history of their own engine development and a history of supplying them to other teams as well.
[/quote]

Its true Mercedes did supply Honda last season.

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DerekJ Newbie

DerekJ

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Can you help me out here? I've Googled for ages trying to find any reference to Honda using Mercedes engines in the past. I can't see anything that even hints at it. Can you help me out with some links.

TBH, I'm not really very interested in F1 (I prefer motorsports where there's a bit of overtaking on the track, not just through pitstops[;-)]) but this intrigues me. It seems incongruous that a major car manufacturer who presumably used F1 as some sort of advertising platform would be using the engines of one of their competitors in the consumer market.

Anyway, any references/links greatly appreciated.

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Dog Newbie

Dog

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SSSShhhhhhhh you weren't meant to know that the engines were built at Brixworth by what was Ilmor, since Paul Morgan unfortunately killed himself in his Hawker Sea Fury - Mercedes upped their stakes and now probably own it all.

I don't know how much input Honda had in the design.

Other engines are made there too and they do development work for Triumph Motorcycles.

They have some very very trick equipment that is so top secret the MOD had to OK it's use.

You'd be surprised how much of the Ferraris is made in UK.

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DerekJ Newbie

DerekJ

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[quote user="Dog"]

SSSShhhhhhhh you weren't meant to know that the engines were built at Brixworth by what was Ilmor, since Paul Morgan unfortunately killed himself in his Hawker Sea Fury - Mercedes upped their stakes and now probably own it all.

I don't know how much input Honda had in the design.

Other engines are made there too and they do development work for Triumph Motorcycles.

They have some very very trick equipment that is so top secret the MOD had to OK it's use.

You'd be surprised how much of the Ferraris is made in UK.

[/quote]

But not Mercedes engines!

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Dog Newbie

Dog

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They don't have lines they are built individually by hand in pristine workshops where you really could eat off the floor.

Yes the Mercedes engines are built by exactly the same engineers that build the Honda engines.

I am sure the Honda engines are not identical to the Mercedes - unless they paid enough.

You are going to have to believe me.

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Dog Newbie

Dog

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[quote user="Sunday Driver"]

According to Ilmor Engineering Ltd, the only Honda badged engines they've ever produced were for the US IRL series.

 

 

[/quote]

 

Have you ever even been in the premises - spoken with the MDs and the people that work there?

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Cjlaws Newbie

Cjlaws

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[quote user="cooperlola"]According to this month's Sport Auto, Bruno Senna may be the second driver, replacing Rubens.[/quote]

That's the problem with monthly magazines. Senna's appointment with Brawn was cancelled earlier this week.

See HERE

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Dog Newbie

Dog

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[quote user="Sunday Driver"]

No.

But I'm sure that if they'd been commissioned to design and manufacture Formula One engines for a client of such eminence as Honda, they'd have mentioned it on their website....[;-)]

[/quote]

I am not sure what the deal was with Honda but they do various stuff for other companies that is not common knowledge. There are few companies worldwide with the technology and engineering to build F1 engines.

Think about it - the Honda chassis and engine must have been designed last year and the chassis must have been ready by about christmas ready to test early this year.

So if the 'new' Mercedes engine is going to slot straight in it must really be the same one with a different badge. There would not be enough time to design and make a new engine and alter the chassis to fit.

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cooperlola2 Newbie

cooperlola2

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I suspect that many high-tech companies do deals with each other for expert consultancy work - and the publicity or otherwise rests with the deal that is signed. Why re-invent the wheel when someone else's rolls really quite well? Years ago, when overhead cam, 16v engines were being promoted as a great way to efficiency, with more power and less consumption, I think Yamaha, who are not famous for much on 4 wheels, were seen as a world authority on OHC design. After all, I think they already had 5 valves per cylinder in some of their bike engines. Closer to home, Riccardo Engineering are famous for not being famous. Few of their consultancies get beyond the confidential stage, because that's what their client paid for and stipulated, yet they seem to be in great demand from very big players indeed. That Mercedes/Ilmor may be on the same discreet bandwagon is no surprise, surely.
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Cjlaws Newbie

Cjlaws

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Most of the design

and development work of the Formula One engine was done at Honda's R&D

centre in Tochigi, Japan.

In 2008 about half Honda’s F1 engines were built in Tochigi

and half at Honda Racing Development Ltd, The Bullbrook Building, Brants

Bridge, Bracknell, Berkshire, RG12 9BQ. The Technical Director of HRD was

Hiroshi Abe, and Ray Dawson was head of Technical Manufacturing.

Each engine-build at HRD was carried out by a two-man team

of one local employee and one Japanese technician on four-month secondment and

took five days.

The 2009 Mercedes engine is the same as the 2008

version, for the simple reason that it has to be under Appendix 6 of the FIA

Formula One Sporting Regulations. It cannot be substituted for the 2008 Honda

engine. To quote Ross Brawn “our car was designed around a different engine and

both the chassis and gearbox have been modified to accommodate the new engine”.

Sorry about the code at the top of this post, which is a result of pasting from MS Word.
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