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I'll never be able to understand this


Rose

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[quote user="woolybanana"]

It is perhaps difficult to understand the mindset and brain washing which goes on in these worlds. Like stepping back 700 years or so.

But then, Germany under the Nazis....

[/quote]

yes I guess so... that's a very good explanation... it's all still so very very sad

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[quote user="suein56"][quote user="woolybanana"]It is perhaps difficult to understand the mindset and brain washing   [/quote]

Is it lack of education, over-zealous religious commitment/enthusiasm or what?

I am appalled, and, yet again, feel helpless and so very sad.

Sue[/quote]

I don't think it has anything to do with over-zealous religious commitment. I think it is more to do with (misguided and or evil) people who have realised that if they play the religious card they can convince / manipulate others. Core religion is usually a force for good, it is man (male and female) who adapts / distorts he core values to achieve political aims. If you belive in a God and powerful, manipulative person says "God has told me to do this" it's difficult to object.

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Sadly, I think many humans have the innate propensity for behaviour such as this.  It's just a matter of how much permission the rest of us give them to express it.  Unfortunately, sometimes the pendulum of societal mores swings in the favour of these compassionless individuals (the Spanish Inquisition, the 3rd Reich, Pol Pot's Cambodia, Guantanamo Bay, Salem, death camps, show trials, pogroms, race hate, genocide, crusades, ethnic cleansing etc etc etc).  I believe it is the absolute and sacred duty of every decent human being alive to be on guard for the subtle changes that flow through our societies.  Never to allow even the merest foothold to the monstrous rabble-rousers and tub-thumpers that are desperate to rise up amongst us promoting cruelty and hatred.  Stand up for Love.  As someone once said; All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
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[quote user="DerekJ"]Organised religon. Man made, articial, dangerous.  Nothing to do with whether there is a god or not.
[/quote]I'm an atheist but I have to agree with you, Derek.

And I don't think one can underestimate the power of the mob.  A few people start doing something and the rest join in.  Most of the Germans I've met in my life seem perfectly pleasant, civilised people, but look what their nation was capable of when one rabble-rouser got into power.  What they were prepared to condone and overlook doesn't bear thinking about.  And neither does this.  And I reckon that few countries who have so little respect for women are very "civilised" in the way I use the word.

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what I also find distressing is that on the Al Jazeera news site they ran a report of the stoning and a few of the reader comments suggest that none of this is true and that it's a fabrication of the west...

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2008/11/2008111201216476354.html

I was talking to our children last week about the crusades and trying to explain (with what little I remembered) about why we went and the reasons behind it and what struck me was that the dogma that was inshrined in 'the west' then... has stayed with us to a certain extent over the centuries.  I think what saddens me the most is that it almost feels like there is no solution... and therefore maybe no end to the extremes of religion. 

I do beleive in God and I also beleive that my god is the same as theirs... the name of your church is generally a simple coincidence of birth... Turkey/Muslim, Ireland/Catholic, Devon/C of E...  I also know that none of these acts have anything to do with  God.. no matter what religion is involved.

 

 

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I have no idea whether there is a god or not. I cannot prove one way or the other, even after exploring both sides of the equation (athiest and religion).

What I do feel is that one day, maybe within the next 100 years, there will be two choices. Well three if you sit on the fence like me. The choice will be atheism or Islam. Christianity will be on its knees and Islam will be the dominant religion in the world. I think it's currently the fastest growing religion in the world, while christianity seems to be subsiding.

But on the other hand, if you look at the bible and what JC said, this was prophesised anyway. Inspired prophesy, or did he know that his teachings would one day become outdated? Who knows?

So, I think the solution will be that Islam will eventually take over the world. Once there is an Islamic president of the USA (should the US still be the world power at the time), then I think that will be the time it has won.

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[quote user="Richard"]

But on the other hand, if you look at the bible and what JC said, this was prophesised anyway. Inspired prophesy, or did he know that his teachings would one day become outdated? Who knows?

[/quote]

Not sure where you got that from Richard.

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If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

The 13 year old girl may have been innocent - but there have been plenty of miscarriages of justice in the UK so how can we justify telling others how to run their country until our own house is in order ?

John

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Crikey, John. 

Edited : I was mixing Rose's story up with one about a woman who was stoned following a rape. Sorry.[:$]

However, I still say murder is wrong and that is what these stonings are.  I wouldn't bring back hanging either - even for those who murdered this man and plan to murder his girlfriend too.  It's barbaric.

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Crikey John too... although I do agree with you that the 'west' has it's fair share of extremists and plenty of shame... but I'm with Coops, violence just breeds violence.

The story about the woman/girl being stoned is just as sad.  Amnesty say she was just 13 and had been raped... and that she was taken out of her 'hole' three times to check that she had been killed... there are also reports that an 8 year old child was killed whilst trying to help her... I could cry at the horror of it all.

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[quote user="Scooby"][quote user="Richard"]

But on the other hand, if you look at the bible and what JC said, this was prophesised anyway. Inspired prophesy, or did he know that his teachings would one day become outdated? Who knows?

[/quote]

Not sure where you got that from Richard.

[/quote]

The bible. Where JC is talking about the end of this system of things, where many famines, wars, disasters and false prophets would appear. Islam would be a massive false prophet in Christian terms. Matthew 24:10-11 to be totally precise "At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people." The whole of Matthew 24 gives the complete prophecy.

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[quote user="Iceni"]

If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

The 13 year old girl may have been innocent - but there have been plenty of miscarriages of justice in the UK so how can we justify telling others how to run their country until our own house is in order ?

John

[/quote]

 

If we all wait for perfection in our countries, then no-one would be able to comment on anything anywhere in the world.

We may not be perfect in Europe, but we have given up public executions, public floggings and public stonings.

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The problem with religious books and indeed religion is they are written by humans and read by the same. Although this is somewhat obvious it does leave them all (books that is) open to interpretation or misinterpretation whichever way you want to view it. I always think of that old, mega long film, 'The Greatest Story Ever Told' and to be honest that is what the Bible is, a story. Whose to say which morals are right. We jump up and down when we hear about somebody getting stoned, their hand cut off or even worse but thats our perception of morals and us saying theirs are wrong. Who's to say which is right or wrong because like them we too have been brainwashed by a cult, the Christian cult.

As to Muslims and Christianity or Christians well was it not GW Bush who, when talking about Iraq, Afghanistan and a few other mainly Muslim states used the word crusade. Not to bright as everyone knows he is a deeply religious Christian man. I seem to remember he said that with Blair by his side when there was talk in the papers about Blair embracing the Catholic faith and the Church of Rome who if memory serves either sent or certainly assisted the crusades in ancient times. I was surprised they were not both wearing a white smocks with a big red cross's on at the time. I wonder why a few people got a bit upset about that. But then isn't, in a way, what the illegal invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan is, a crusade. Mind you its a bit cheeky when you consider Bush like many fellow Americans are what we would now consider a byproduct of an illegal invasion of another country i.e. America. I mean they are not exactly the indigenous population just as the Brits and the Boars are in South Africa. But then we could go on and mention Australia, New Zealand etc. But then the Muslims did their bit as well, Spain comes to mind straight away to mention but one.

If I had my way I would ban religion completely. That does not mean we should have a problem with God, just religion.

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