Foreign doctors' poor English

[NormanH]

According to this report in The Independent

'Although the General Medical Council regulates doctors in the UK, it is prevented from checking the competence or language skills of EEA doctors under EU law'

and this is posing a grave danger.

I am by no means anti European, but this seems extraordinary.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/foreign-doctors-poor-english-is-killing-patients-say-mps-1938707.html

[Gluestick]

Well, a number of us on the consumption side of the NHS have been waxing lyrical about this for some little time, Norman.

But told we are "Racist".........................

[Www]

[powerdesal]

[quote user="Gluestick"]

Well, a number of us on the consumption side of the NHS have been waxing lyrical about this for some little time, Norman.

But told we are "Racist".........................

[Www]

[/quote]

And so you are Gluey, heaven forbid that you should expect to converse in English with a doctor in England.....whatever next?????

[Will]

This is a full report of the incident that gave rise to the story.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8497911.stm

Some time ago, out-of-hours care was taken out of the responsibility of GPs and placed with outside agencies. Most of the agencies have experienced real difficulties recruiting doctors. In this case, a German doctor originally from Nigeria, who had already been turned down for employment as a doctor elsewhere, was put to work almost immediately with hardly any training in NHS and local practices. He prescribed an over-large dose of medication which resulted in the death of a patient.

The system is obviously in need of reform and improvement, but this was an isolated incident, however regrettable, involving one poorly-managed agency; the fact that this doctor was refused employment before on language skill grounds shows that there are safeguards in place that were not followed by this company. Nevertheless it is a poor system; whatever the reason out-of-hours care was taken from GPs, it needs, in my opinion, to be returned to the local practitioners rather than run by private agencies.

Incidentally, everybody's favourite newspaper had a rather stronger version of the story:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1177032/My-horrific-ordeal-hands-awayday-GP-left-patients-dead.html

[NormanH]

[quote user="Gluestick"]

Well, a number of us on the consumption side of the NHS have been waxing lyrical about this for some little time, Norman.

But told we are "Racist".........................

[Www]

[/quote]

What has race got to do with the issue?

You seem obsessed.

The problem centres around language, and I believed previously that professionals who are not native speakers had to pass a test of Proficiency before being allowed to practise.

A Czech  or  German Doctor  (we are talking about Europeans) may be competent in medicine, but unable to communicate effectively with the Patient or other medical personnel in English.

I simply find it surprising that European law forbids the GMC from  checking this.

[powerdesal]

[quote user="NormanH"][quote user="Gluestick"]

Well, a number of us on the consumption side of the NHS have been waxing lyrical about this for some little time, Norman.

But told we are "Racist".........................

[Www]

[/quote]
What has race got to do with the issue?
You seem obsessed.
The problem centres around language, and I believed previously that professionals who are not native speakers had to pass a test of Proficiency before being allowed to practise.

A Czech  or  German Doctor  (we are talking about Europeans) may be competent in medicine, but unable to communicate effectively with the Patient or other medical personnel in English.
I simply find it surprising that European law forbids the GMC from  checking this.



[/quote]

Norman, you must be aware that any critiscism of any sort of anyone other than indiginous British is labelled as ''Racist'' whether it is related to nationality, religion, colour, language  or whatever. Its an all encompassing epiphet these days.

[Chancer]

Its prety good going to kill two people on your first days work and then blame it on (amongst other things) having to drive on the wrong side of the road and a non functioning satnav!

Lord only knows how much it costs the taxpayer to increase GP's pay exponentially whilst excusing them from working out of hours and then to fly in locums from other countries, put them up in hotels and employ them through intermediaries.  

[Gluestick]

Well put, Steve.

Careful though: you are now probably verging on a Hate Crime!

Sorry Will, cannot agree.

Sadly, it is far from an "Isolated Incident".

When I was unfortunately hospitalised for serious surgery two years ago, sisters were rarer than hen's teeth: nurses pretty rare: and the majority of the nursing functions carried out by ill-qualified HCAs: many of whom were in fact non-British and many having a rudimentary grasp of the English language.

Mis-prescription is now a very serious problem for the NHS.

See Here 2005:

Also Here:

There is a plethora of reported incidents and this area of Medical Malpractice is one of the fastest growing trends.

 

[Iceni]

[quote user="Gluestick"]

Mis-prescription is now a very serious problem for the NHS.

[/quote]

Interesting comment, I would have thought it is an even more serious problem for the patients.

John

[woolybanana]

Am I not right in thinking that non-EU national doctors wishing to work in the UK do have to pass a language proficiency exam, whereas those from the EU do not?

The NHS does not care about patients, but patient numbers.

[Will]

Gluey - by 'isolated incident' I was referring to the employment of a doctor with inadequate checks and training skills by a pivate agency working for the NHS.

Misprescription is another issue altogether. In the case under discussion, that was the basic cause of the death of a patient, but the general problem, in my opinion, is far wider than the two links you provided (one referring to a study in a single eye hospital, and the other to a survey of 55 care homes - both of which came out rather better than I might have expected). My personal experience of wrongly prescribed medication includes the French health service as well as the NHS.

It's a fact that the French health service actively recruits for doctors etc in Romania among other places (it was discussed on this forum quite recently), so it's not really fair to single out the NHS for employing non-British staff.

Edit: WB - that seems to be correct; the fact that EU rules apparently prevent language tests for non-nationals from other EU states being the point of Norman's original post. In this case a Nigerian doctor arrived in Britain via Germany, i.e. an EU state. I suppose he could have sought employment in any other EU state, it's unfortunate to say the least that it happened to be in Britain.

[woolybanana]

But the Romanians speak French and also train French doctors by the ton. And they have to pass a language test to work in the French system.

[Quillan]

I wonder how many get it wrong because the patient can't speak English either. At the other end whilst waiting to get a scan yesterday in Carcassonne I was amazed that more than one English person was shouting at the receptionist because she didn't speak English and they didn't speak French. She called me over and asked me to translate, I told them, in front of her, to do what I do, if you don't understand pay for a translator. Bought a smile and a thanks from the receptionist.

Just to add that my medical French is non existent which is why I use a translator and I certainly wouldn't attempt to translate for another in case I go it totally wrong which is why I made no attempt to help them.

[Gluestick]

[quote user="Will"]Gluey - by 'isolated incident' I was referring to the employment of a doctor with inadequate checks and training skills by a pivate agency working for the NHS.

Misprescription is another issue altogether. In the case under discussion, that was the basic cause of the death of a patient, but the general problem, in my opinion, is far wider than the two links you provided (one referring to a study in a single eye hospital, and the other to a survey of 55 care homes - both of which came out rather better than I might have expected). My personal experience of wrongly prescribed medication includes the French health service as well as the NHS.

It's a fact that the French health service actively recruits for doctors etc in Romania among other places (it was discussed on this forum quite recently), so it's not really fair to single out the NHS for employing non-British staff.


[/quote]

I fundamentally agree, Will. However, I'd place serious money on the reality that the Romanian docs employed by the French healthservice can read, write and speak good French!

Last time I checked (From an interesting discussion with a dear English friend who was hospitalised in France and a fluent French speaker - who was an Advocat!), Infirmieres and the next one down (Forget what it's called) were all well qualified.

In UK HCAs are not: and what's more, tend to be minimum wage workers from agencies.

And the core difference in France and Britain is that Britain has bent over backwards to avoid essential use of English by pandering to incomers by printing everything in umpteen languages and dialects!

Which is fine until one comes to pharmacy and doctors, nurses and HCAs, etc.

http://www.london.nhs.uk/webfiles/FOI/January%202009%20disclog/L158%20Attachment%2001.pdf

[velcorin]

There have been recent TV reports highlighting the problems "foreign" doctors (non-white ie Maghrebi/West African) face in the health service. Apparently, the private hospitals, have been employing them in preference to "native" doctors, but only paying them half the salary. Seems the healthcare unions, want it stopped, but the government can't do anything, and wouldn't coz the private sector is so big, and so much cheaper (I must admit, round us I can't think of a single state run hospital). And the "foreign" doctors ain't too chuffed either. Suppose it will mean strikes. Again[:@]

[Swissie]

I abhor racism, and totally agree that it is NOT racist to test/check that key services workers, in charge of life and death- can speak AND understand adequate English if coming to work in UK. For the sake of all, me, your kids, my grand-kids, etc. Anything else is tantamount to manslaughter.

BUT  I would prefer the Sun and other right wing populist paper to ensure they have their facts absolutely right - and are not stirring up trouble and hatred.