NickP Posted May 3, 2010 Share Posted May 3, 2010 Barack Obama has issued a stern message to the British oil giant: "BP is responsible for this leak. BP will be paying the bill."Looks like a good excuse for fuel prices to rise again ? So it will inevitably come down to us lot of mugs to pay for someone else's mistakes, nothing changes? [:(] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted May 3, 2010 Share Posted May 3, 2010 Obama is being disingenuous in the extreme, perhaps, as it seems the work which failed was done by Halliburton, a US company which acquired a certain reputation in Iraq. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickP Posted May 3, 2010 Author Share Posted May 3, 2010 Obama didn't employ them, BP did. So if as you say "Halliburton had acquired a reputation in Iraq, I'm sure that BP would have been aware of that fact. Wouldn't they, or do you know more than BP wooly? [:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted May 3, 2010 Share Posted May 3, 2010 Quite how the fortunes of a private company like BP actually could or would directly influence fuel prices escapes me.BP have the resources to pay just about any amount however the figures currently being bandied about, which are almost certainly gross underestimates, will cripple their ability to invest and prospect for new fields. Proven reserves are the backbone which determine the worth of all the major oil companies and without them they can only wither and die.At the extreme it is not entirely inconceivable that this incident could signal the beginning of the end of BP by weakening them to the point where a takeover becomes inevitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerdesal Posted May 3, 2010 Share Posted May 3, 2010 Imagine if you will, that you employed a specialist contractor to, lets say, remodel your garden. During the works the contractor damaged a water pipe that subsequently flooded your neighbours house. Who is liable for the costs? Is it you, who employed the contractor (remember he is a 'specialist' in garden remodelling) or is it the contractor who caused the damage? Now extrapolate that scenario to the oil spill. Simplistically perhaps, BP employed a rig company to drill, the rig company (specialist drilling contractor) makes an error or has an unforseen problem which results in major damage - who pays? Presumably there will be many and various contractual clauses involved but, again simplistically, BP have employed, in good faith, a specialist who's work has led to a major problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissie Posted May 3, 2010 Share Posted May 3, 2010 And, of course, it would be much more worthwhile to try to get BP to pay out vast sums, rather than a relatively small operator who would go bankrupt immediately.......not being cynical, of course[:$]Chrissie (81) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickP Posted May 3, 2010 Author Share Posted May 3, 2010 AnOther writes,"Quite how the fortunes of a private company like BP actually could or would directly influence fuel prices escapes me."I'm surprised that escapes you my old mate, as I had you down as one of life's clear thinkers. BP is one of the largest fuel suppliers in the UK, if they have to spend more money than they thought they would after they have worked out their budget, they will put their prices up, it 'aint rocket science. It may have passed you by but not all fuel company's charge the same amount. Personally I never use Total in France as their prices are the highest in our area. So if BP have to pay for the clean up it will cost them money. If the insurance has to pay out they will put BP's premiums up, simple. In the end you and I will pay more for your fuel at the BP shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frederick Posted May 3, 2010 Share Posted May 3, 2010 I heard on the radio that a "blow out " preventer failed to "Snap shut " as fully as it should have ...Who made that bit of non working kit then.. a US Company ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Zoff Posted May 3, 2010 Share Posted May 3, 2010 I doubt Obama was too concerned about the small print. He is a politician after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted May 3, 2010 Share Posted May 3, 2010 The market, the laws of supply and demand, competition, and of course taxes, determine the price of fuel at the pump Nick and whilst BP may choose to try to inflate their prices by a penny or two to recoup what the stand to lose over this in an intensely price sensitive market, not to mention a recession where petrol sales have already slumped by 20%, people will equally choose not to buy from them - and even if they did how long is it going to take to get back billions @ 2p/lt. BP are also going to be in ruinously expensive litigation over this for the forseeable future.Insurance is not a direct factor as BP chose not to insure against this event so the entire cost will be down to them. Their premiums in other areas may well increase I agree.I too avoid Total in France for the same reasons BTW [;-)]Frederick:From what I've seen and heard no blowout protector was installed. Had one been in place on the sea bed then the likelihood of it failing to serve it's purpose and prevent this cataclysm would have been practically zero, another poorly risk assessed choice by BP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted May 3, 2010 Share Posted May 3, 2010 Its been over a month since I last filled up with fuel and the prices seeme to me to have gone up a lot.Coming back from the South at the end of Paques we filled up the minibus and it was from memory €1.12 per litre for gasoil, back in my town it is €1.18 at the supermarkets and not 100m away at the Total station €129.9 per litre [:-))]Hardly surprising that I have yet to see any customers at their pumps, the Esso service station went tits up a couple of years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickP Posted May 3, 2010 Author Share Posted May 3, 2010 AnOther: How long it takes them to get back their millions is immaterial, it still means that fuel prices for Joe Public will increase, OK I will admit that is mainly if you buy BP, but you know as well as I do, if one puts their prices up; the others follow. We also know that they have a price drop every now and then to manipulate sales figures, but in reality if one increases; they all do. You say fuel sales have decreased by 20%, that may be true, although I don't notice a drop in prices quite the opposite. I am very interested in your opinion as to the non use of a "blowout protector" surely if that is true then BP is guilty of gross irresponsibility, and I would have thought that in an industry that is supposed to be environmentally aware, to not have this precaution in place is disgusting. If this is true then BP is entitled to all the flack and financial problems that comes it's way. I do not know much about drilling but surely these precautions should be mandatory, after all many environmental disasters have been caused by the oil industry, and I just assumed that all precautions possible were in place. Just shows how naive we are. [:(] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerdesal Posted May 3, 2010 Share Posted May 3, 2010 http://www.2theadvocate.com/news/92646084.html?index=40&c=y According to the above article a BOP was fitted and failed to operate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickP Posted May 4, 2010 Author Share Posted May 4, 2010 [quote user="powerdesal"]http://www.2theadvocate.com/news/92646084.html?index=40&c=y According to the above article a BOP was fitted and failed to operate.[/quote] It's good to know that they're a government requirement for a permit, shame that they're not required to work. Still when the dust has settled, all the it'll never happen again promises will be trotted out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted May 4, 2010 Share Posted May 4, 2010 [quote user="Chancer"]Its been over a month since I last filled up with fuel and the prices seeme to me to have gone up a lot.Coming back from the South at the end of Paques we filled up the minibus and it was from memory €1.12 per litre for gasoil, back in my town it is €1.18 at the supermarkets and not 100m away at the Total station €129.9 per litre [:-))]Hardly surprising that I have yet to see any customers at their pumps, the Esso service station went tits up a couple of years ago.[/quote]It's 1.15 a litre at our supermarkets and I saw one Total garage at 1.35 all in the same town but I do actually see people buying from the Total garage, not many I must admit. Our Esso, unmanned, garage used to be cheap but that's around 1.18 but I gather from a friend who has just returned from the UK that its still cheaper in France even with the current low exchange rate (which incidentally is now only 3 cents away from my 1.16 to the pound prediction [:P] ).I saw earlier in the thread that one or two people appeared, unless I read it wrong, not to like Total as a company. Not following these issues I wondered why, tried Googling them but couldn't find anything. So is there a reason and could they enlighten us/me or point me in the right direction with a link please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted May 4, 2010 Share Posted May 4, 2010 Thanks for the article Chancer, the first reports I heard said that no BOP was installed which I did find surprising but at the same time could believe it as there is a strong cowboy mentality in the Gulf where it's still predominantly good ole redneck boys from the Lousianna Bayou along with their engraved aluminium hard hats and crocodile cowboy boots. BP have something of a poor safety reputation on both sides of the pond.If one was fitted then it should have been fail safe. I can't know which type it was but typically they will be positively held open, either by electrical power or hydraulic pressure, and sensitive to a loss of riser pressure such as would occour in case of a major leak, so that in case of a major topsides incident it where electricity or hydraulics fail, as has been the case here, it should instantly shut. With the reported amount of oil escaping it does sound as if it has partly operated though as 42,000 gallons is well under 1000bpd (Barrels Per Day) which, in production terms, is not worth getting out of bed for so I would assume that it has been damaged somehow in the incident which is why it cannot be closed now.Regarding fuel prices Nick: I very much doubt that BP would get away unilaterally raising their prices and if they did, and others followed suit, then I think governments might have something to say about it, possibly imposing something like a windfall tax as punishment. Remember that in UK, having already risen 1p/lt on April 1st, duty is already scheduled to rise a further 1p on the 1st October 2010 and by 0.76p on the 1st January 2011 so another opportunistic hike will be severely frowned upon.You can also expect a rise in the cost of crude as nervousness and overreaction puts a temporary block on exploration in sensitive areas such as the Gulf of Mexico, Alaska, and in California as Arnie has just done.Actual pump prices are tied to the cost of a barrel, which is measured in USD, and tax with a very small element actually being profit, THIS site is interesting and gives you the idea. It is the rising strength of the USD, which is higher than when the oil price was in the $140 region, which is the main reason for the current prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted May 4, 2010 Share Posted May 4, 2010 [quote user="Quillan"]I saw earlier in the thread that one or two people appeared, unless I read it wrong, not to like Total as a company[/quote]I don't think it's anything to do with Total per se Q, simply that on balance their prices are nearly always higher then anyone elses.For diesel at least they justify it by claiming it their Excellium is a superior fuel allegedly giving greater MPG plus other benefits but frankly, having tried it (under duress on the peage) I found it not discernably different to any other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted May 4, 2010 Share Posted May 4, 2010 Thanks for that, I thought it might be because people were worried about their 'ethics' or something. Personally I go for the cheapest and fill up completely every time as you don't know what the next price will be. Supermarket fuel works for me, the engine still starts and the wheels turn and thats all I need these days, I'm a bit to old now for 'performance' fuels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted May 4, 2010 Share Posted May 4, 2010 Me too although I've given up on Netto's unleaded 95 as it is the only fuel which makes my MGB pink - no comments about it being a nice colour please [blink]A friend of mine has a diesel Mazda which seemingly has a secondary tank for some fuel additive which cost's €25/lt or something outrageous. Enough to put me off buying one.I told him to make sure it was a diesel and not a 2 stroke ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tegwini Posted May 4, 2010 Share Posted May 4, 2010 [quote user="Quillan"]Thanks for that, I thought it might be because people were worried about their 'ethics' or something. Personally I go for the cheapest and fill up completely every time as you don't know what the next price will be. Supermarket fuel works for me, the engine still starts and the wheels turn and thats all I need these days, I'm a bit to old now for 'performance' fuels.[/quote]I second that.But, for those living in France be grateful you don't have to pay now £1.21 per litrefor diesel ! On our last trip ( Easter) comparing the price then with what we paid in France then it was about 22p cheaper for diesel in France - mostly tax for Broon's 'tax-up' and waste.Now wonder we get on the ferry with a near empty tank in Portsmouth and a full one leaving France.Tegwini Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted May 4, 2010 Share Posted May 4, 2010 [quote user="AnOther"]A friend of mine has a diesel Mazda which seemingly has a secondary tank for some fuel additive which cost's €25/lt or something outrageous. Enough to put me off buying one.[/quote]My Peugeot has the same thing, I am told most modern desiels has it. I guess it holds about 3 litres, it's not so much a performance thing as cleans the system out thus reducing Co2 emissions. It is expensive but you don't use much. I checked the tank on mine during the CT (its underneath) and having done around 110,000km its about 1/4 full. Trouble is its difficult to refill if it runs out as it has to be vacuumed through the system. I would have thought it better to fill it whilst it still had something in it but my local garage told me to wait till the light came on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velcorin Posted May 4, 2010 Share Posted May 4, 2010 I don't think anyone is realising just how BIG BP is, if it was a country it would be a G7 member. Only about 3% of it's business is in the UK. USD10/20/30 billion would not even be noticed. Worldwide sales were USD300 billion in 2009, and will be significantly better in 2010. It spends more money on Purchasing than the UK Government. I don't think people are comprehending just how (off the scale) big UK companies like Vodaphone, HSBC, Shell, GSK and BP are, as you're thinking UK only. The pure scale of their global dominance can be difficult to comprehend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerdesal Posted May 4, 2010 Share Posted May 4, 2010 BOP failure ?, forget it. Hows this for a totally off the wall conspiracy theory.....................the mind boggles!!!!!!![8-)]"A grim report circulating in the Kremlin today written by Russia’s Northern Fleet is reporting that the United States has ordered a complete media blackout over North Korea’s torpedoing of the giant Deepwater Horizon oil platform owned by the World’s largest offshore drilling contractor Transocean that was built and financed by South Korea’s Hyundai Heavy Industries Co. Ltd., that has caused great loss of life, untold billions in economic damage to the South Korean economy, and an environmental catastrophe to the United States.Most important to understand about this latest attack by North Korea against its South Korean enemy is that under the existing “laws of war” it was a permissible action as they remain in a state of war against each other due to South Korea’s refusal to sign the 1953 Armistice ending the Korean War.To the attack itself, these reports continue, the North Korean “cargo vessel” Dai Hong Dan believed to be staffed by 17th Sniper Corps “suicide” troops left Cuba’s Empresa Terminales Mambisas de La Habana (Port of Havana) on April 18th whereupon it “severely deviated” from its intended course for Venezuela’s Puerto Cabello bringing it to within 209 kilometers (130 miles) of the Deepwater Horizon oil platform which was located 80 kilometers (50 miles) off the coast of the US State of Louisiana where it launched an SSC Sang-o Class Mini Submarine (Yugo class) estimated to have an operational range of 321 kilometers (200 miles).On the night of April 20th the North Korean Mini Submarine manned by these “suicidal” 17th Sniper Corps soldiers attacked the Deepwater Horizon with what are believed to be 2 incendiary torpedoes causing a massive explosion and resulting in 11 workers on this giant oil rig being killed outright. Barely 48 hours later, on April 22nd , this North Korean Mini Submarine committed its final atrocity by exploding itself directly beneath the Deepwater Horizon causing this $1 Billion oil rig to sink beneath the seas and marking 2010’s celebration of Earth Day with one of the largest environmental catastrophes our World has ever seen.'' There is more but my eyeballs just couldn't take any it !!!! ps. I didn't make it up but someone has a vivid imagination.....or have they?????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave21478 Posted May 5, 2010 Share Posted May 5, 2010 [quote user="Quillan"]I saw earlier in the thread that one or two people appeared, unless I read it wrong, not to like Total as a company. Not following these issues I wondered why, tried Googling them but couldn't find anything. So is there a reason and could they enlighten us/me or point me in the right direction with a link please?[/quote]Last time I drive down from UK, by chance every station I stopped at on the autoroutes was a Total station. Regular 95ron unleaded is no longer sold at these stations, they have replaced it with E10. Since it was 2am and I had never even heard of E10, I was a tad wary. A small sticker on the pumps declares that "most" post 2000 cars are compatible with it, with a few exceptions - which were not listed. Having a 1997 car, I didnt want to take the risk so was forced to fill up with their premium 99ron fuel, which is significantly more expensive for no noticeable benefit in an average car.Thats why I dislike them.Although the free white-wrapped boiled sweeties they have in a jar at the tills are delicious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted May 5, 2010 Share Posted May 5, 2010 Well then, you'll just have to help yourself to fistfuls of sweets, won't you?[:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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