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Was Starkey being racist or too subtle for the audience?


woolybanana

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As Professor Joad might have said 'It depends what you mean by racist'

I no longer understand the word, so broadly is it used.

At the very least he was extremely naive to invoke Enoch ¨Powell at this moment, and to talk about black and white especially given the profile of some of those arrested.

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His comment about listening to some black people on the radio and not knowing if they were black or white or any other nationality come to that is, I believe racist, as it implies and in deed he said it to a degree, that you can stereo type race by speech. Some people do speak differently, listen to a French person in London on holiday yet you wouldn't imply it in a racist way in the same way as he did when talking about blacks and in the context in which he says it.

As to his comment about white becoming black one could argue the other way round of course. Perhaps what it does show is that colour, which ever way round, is not an issue with regards to the riots. It was simply a bunch, well loads, of people intent on causing as much damage as they could and to steal as much as they could.

By the way I saw on the news that the lad of oriental extraction who was videoed being robbed is also being prosecuted for looting. Goes to prove a picture, or video does not indeed say a thousand words.

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It seems to me that as an analysis of what is wrong in the UK now, it is apposite - there has certainly been a mixing of cultures, and his analysis speaks to  me of what I saw happening before I left the UK, and as has been said, felt I was not in my home country.

Racist?  Well I do remember being told by a black person - what's wrong with describing us as black?  We're black - you're white.  Simple.

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"As to a cultured and educated manner of speaking, just wander into a shop retailing Hi Fi and media products in Leicester...with your eyes firmly shut"

I do this perhaps as often as you do innit. Like all generalisations it leaves something to be desired.

Hoddy

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"As to a cultured and educated manner of speaking, just wander into a shop retailing Hi Fi and media products in Leicester...with your eyes firmly shut"

"I do this perhaps as often as you do innit. Like all generalisations it leaves something to be desired."

Hoddy

And when you hear the dulcet tones of a well modulated female voice with remarkable elocution.

Open your eyes!

And behold a polite lady of Indian extraction.

Pachapapa. 

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[quote user="pachapapa"]

 

And when you hear the dulcet tones of a well modulated female voice with remarkable elocution.

Open your eyes!

And behold a polite lady of Indian extraction.

[/quote]

Quite probably born in England of parents who have spent most or all of their lives in England. She is English - so why should anyone be surprised?

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[quote user="Judith"]  .... Racist?  Well I do remember being told by a black person - what's wrong with describing us as black?  We're black - you're white.  Simple.
[/quote]

 

My daughter-in-law is black and she told me herself that there is no more racist/xenophobic on earth as black people pitted against each other. White man do not separate black people fighting on a matter of tribe or race. Just walk on  ...

 

 

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Strangely enough, l'Aiffricaine, I was thinking about Starkey's remarks (and I was watching the programme when he made them), when a chance remark from our visiting guest brought them sharply into focus.

The visitor is in the classical music profession (well-known in those circles) and so is arguably in a strongly middle class and, some might even say, elitist social stratum.

He said that he couldn't understand a lot of the language that is used by young colleaques in the orchestras with which he plays.  They also have a sort of "sign" language such as in gangsta speak (think rap and think hand gestures) and he says he struggles to understand the meaning.  Some of the meanings are very rude, of course, hence the hand signals and signs rather than speech.

I am both amazed and puzzled....shows how divorced I have become from "popular" English culture, oh dear!

 

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Much too subtle Wools, albeit in a first draft kind of way, perhaps, to avoid the furore that has followed.
Does anyone who has watched David Starkey's programmes not think that he has a grasp on the lessons history has taught us?
If the word race was replaced with attitude then I would have to agree with his argument; when a manufacturing base disappears, apprenticeships and employment for the current underclass in our society goes too; what do disenfranchised youth turn to? Their academic counterparts are offered around £50k loans for university education while they are begrudingly offered job seekers allowance and the reality is there are no jobs for them. Time to realise the country has a duty of care for these people or watch them turn ferral. Is it any surprise then that in some quarters a ''particular sort of violent, destructive, nihilistic gangster culture has become the fashion.''  .[:'(]
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It appears from a survey carried out in 2008 that the average "wage " earned by a street drug dealer was £19,000 a year Plus whatever "Job Seekers Allowance " they were getting . When 10 year old kids are getting a cut for running drugs and yearn to move up the ladder and make some real money what is the answer ? Pay them more in benefits to be good little boys ?
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[quote user="Frederick"]  what is the answer ? Pay them more in benefits to be good little boys ?[/quote]

Absolutely not, I really don't believe that the current job seeker allowance is anything more than a palliative nod; some thinking out of the box is clearly required, perhaps change the drug distribution to a Government one for registered druggies who agree to a medical (and dna test, may as well clear up a few other problems at the same time); Instead of prison perhaps some unpaid aid work; Howabout Job creation schemes where employers get the unemployed for a year; maybe Government share investment to corporate job creation; I'm sure there are enough quango's to work out the details[6]

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[quote user="just john "]

[quote user="Frederick"]  what is the answer ? Pay them more in benefits to be good little boys ?[/quote]

Absolutely not, I really don't believe that the current job seeker allowance is anything more than a palliative nod; some thinking out of the box is clearly required, perhaps change the drug distribution to a Government one for registered druggies who agree to a medical (and dna test, may as well clear up a few other problems at the same time); Instead of prison perhaps some unpaid aid work; Howabout Job creation schemes where employers get the unemployed for a year; maybe Government share investment to corporate job creation; I'm sure there are enough quango's to work out the details[6]

[/quote]

Government drug distrobution may seem a good idea...but ... Given the amount of money involved in the current drug scene and those who handle it ... As soon as a legal drug distribution center was opened it  would probalby be  torched  within a week  .

 

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