Evianers Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 An item on French Property News came out yesterday https://www.french-property.com/news/tax_france/social_charges_nancy_judgement/ which appears will lead to another round of claims by French Residents with S1 forms. The court has basically disallowed the changes to law made by the French Government in 2015 which re-allocated Social Charges and allowed them to be imposed on everyone in France.The important part of the article is where it states that claims for refund of Social Charges paid for 2015 and 2016 must be submitted before the end of 2018.Sounds like it's going to be another long saga to get the money back....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Yes, but look at it this way, Sheila: say you spend 3 hours printing out paperwork, writing letters, doing all the necessary and you get back 300 euros. That's 100 euros for 1 hour's work. Don't know about you but I can honestly say that in my whole working life, I never earned money at that kind of rate.So, don't you think it's worth the "long saga to get the money back"? Plus, if it's as hoped, they'd have to pay interest on the money, like they did last time[:)]Feel better about the grind? AND, I hope your health is now hugely improved[:)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evianers Posted October 9, 2018 Author Share Posted October 9, 2018 I have been usurped! Yes, it is not Sheila, but the OH who wrote the above.100 euros for 1 hour's work..............sounds good to me. OH is going for it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 I suppose that we appeal again, exactly as last time, quoting the Ruyter decision?Definitely worth a try. Now easier than ever with all previous tax avis on-line and printable. Anyone else has any thoughts on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fittersmate Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 Hopefully Parsnip will be along to advise us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evianers Posted October 10, 2018 Author Share Posted October 10, 2018 Mint, yes it's time to gear up for another round of claims. Not sure if we need to mention De Ruyter or the Appeal Court decision - or both!It's interesting that the Appeal Court in Nancy stated that "the major part (14.05%) of the social charges was to be immediately reimbursed to the taxpayer." Members of that Court have obviously never seen the Fisc in action - or in this case, non-action!Funny that when we owe the Fisc money, we have a limited time to pay before penalties kick in. However, when the Fisc owe us money, we have to make a claim and then wait for over two years for them to actually pay out. Yes, they pay some interest but most of us would rather have the money now. After all, the Fisc know from our tax returns how much we have paid in Social Charges and it can't be that hard to trawl through the taxpayer database to find all references to S1 or E121. They could even obtain a list from CPAM to cross-check - although that would mean two Government departments actually having to talk to each other.....I'm guessing that they work on the principle that they will have to refund less money if a) they don't actively inform the taxpayers and b) force those who do find out to make a claim within a short time in the hope that a lot of people will be too late.Plus ça change....Sheila's OH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Un autre Gallois Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 Thanks for the very useful info. I have just sent an email to the local Hotel (Limoux) referring to the "arrêt de la Cour Administrative d'appel at Nancy, 31 mai 2018" saying that, in the light of this decision, some of the social prelevements levied on my revenue for the years 2015, 2016, and 2017 are illegal. Refund requested - watch this space. I was one of the early claimants (successfully) following the "de Ruyter" decision when all went well without a hitch, Fingers crossed!UAG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 Oh yes, please, Gallois, do let us know! I claimed for 2015 at the time but that was refused. Would be a nice Christmas present if they'd stop pussyfooting around and just give us our money back[:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Un autre Gallois Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 Hi - unfortunately the local "controller" is having none of it! He is relying on the modification of the legislation effective from 1 January 2016 which from that date legalised the "prélèvements sociaux"!I shall ask him to reconsider and register my request to safeguard my position.UAG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 Does anyone know of any official source where it states in black and white that we should not have paid for 2015, 16 and 17?As I remember it, the last time around there was some statement about it in an official source that we were able to quote in our communication with the impots.When I return from my weekend away, I'll have a search through some sites, dig out my old correspondence on this and fire off an email. Gallois, let us all touch base on here so we are not replicating actions that someone else might have taken already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsnips Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 Hi, I have only just caught up with this news, but I have found the link below which quotes details and references for the decision of the court. I am going to renew my application for 2015 immediately and then start work on later years. Something to do when the weather turns wintry https://blog.equance.com/actualite/contentieux-sur-la-csg-crds-des-non-residents-un-nouvel-espoir-de-remboursement. It may well be that nothing will be refunded till the end of the governments appeal against this decision , but it is essential to get the 2015 claim in now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 Parsnips, thank you... "once more unto the breach, dear Parsnips...." oops, sorry, Shakespeare, got carried away because I am so thrilled that you have come to help us out.I shall definitely be following your advice, as I am sure so will countless others.Thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juswundrin2 Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 mint"]: "Does anyone know of any official source where it states in black and white that we should not have paid for 2015, 16 and 17?"This is the email I'm planning to send, which refers to (hopefully) the relevant legal decisions.====================Suite au jugement du 11 juillet 2017 du tribunal Administratif de Strasbourg, confirmé par la Cour Administrative d’Appel de Nancy le 31 mai 2018, sur la légalité de l'application des Contributions Sociaux (CSG, CRDS, PS) aux revenus des valeurs mobiliers reçus par des étrangers résidents en France, qui ont leurs frais de santé payées par leurs pays d'origine, je voudrais enregistrer, provisoirement, une réclamation (en tant que titulaire de formulaire S1, donc pas à la charge de l'assurance maladie).https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichJuriAdmin.do?oldAction=rechJuriAdmin&idTexte=CETATEXT000037039702&fastReqId=2003156200&fastPos=2&utm_source=Patrimea+Newsletter&utm_campaign=2d014ba9e9-6.Newsletter_Expat_2018_6_27__&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_6f1ca407En attendant la décision de la CJUE, je vous prie, dans le cas où la Cour tranche contre l'application de ces charges, de me rembourser les contributions sociaux payées sur mes revenus de valeurs mobiliers (intérêts) reçu pour les années 2015, 2016, 2017 (payées en 2016, 2017. 2018).====================Any amendments / improvements gratefully received. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 juswundrin2, I like the sound of that, striking the right note of confidence in your claim and clearly stating the grounds on which you base that claim. Further question, svp. Would an email with all the accompanying documents do or should one go to the trouble of a lettre recommandée? I ask because there seems to be a tendency for emails to be the preferred mode of communication and to get the quickest response. I have recently had some money back, after requesting it by email, for using an aide domicile last year and the reimbursement was made in the blink of an eye! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juswundrin2 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 HiI simply claimed by email (no supporting documents, I figured they had access to anything they might need) last time. You could presumably also contact them via the Impots website.I do get the impression that the tax people are more than happy to correspond via email, any replies to my own queries in the past have always been prompt and helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Thanks for your further advice. Will be doing as you have suggested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsnips Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Hi, Yes , email ,via the messagerie on your personal impot account is the way to go ; you get an incontestable proof of reception and a record of what you said , and how they replied;which you can download and print. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Thank you, Parsnips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Email sent and usual acknowledgement reply received. Will return with news, favourable or otherwise! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Juswundrin, impossible to read your post as it stretches wide across the page and is half hidden by ads. Is there any way of makng it readable, svp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grecian Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 WB, if you highlight and copy the text, and then paste it into a text document, you will be able to read it. The same works for the website link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Yes, Wools, just as Grecian has explained. You could even copy the text straight into your espace particulier on the impots site; then tweak the contents to suit your own circumstances and away you go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Thank you Grecian and Nimterooni, it worked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fittersmate Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 Have sent message registering claim via personal space and have received a reply saying that this has been passed to department at Vannes which is where our previous claim was dealt with.Have seen this today:https://www.french-property.com/news/tax_france/social_charges_non_residents_abolitionAlthough the title of article relates to non-residents it does say that this affects residents with S1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 An opportune post, fittersmate, as I was just about to ask on this thread whether anyone has heard from their tax office.I will now write again to enquire whether my local office has done anything about my question and, if not, suggest that they send my request to Périgueux, pointing out that Périgueux dealt with it last time.If we can all "report back", it will help clarify things and point a way foreward for everyone. Thank you again, fittersmate, and good luck with your claim. Indeed, we all need a bit of luck and plenty of persistence?[:)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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