Is David Attenborough right?

[woolybanana]

Are we destroying the planet, are we a parasite animal which will destroy the planet by our overbreeding? My gut feeling is that he is right but I wonder whether some malthusian plague will save the place for what is left - the rats?

http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/23/3906520/planet-earth-narrator-david-attenborough-calls-humans-a-plague-on-the

[Mr Ceour de Lion II]

Every dominant creature to set foot on this planet changes the climate somehow.

Yeah, the climate is changing, some species will die out (as they always have done before), and new ones will evolve to be able to survive the next climate.

I seriously doubt that mankind has been able to influence the planet that greatly in the tiny amount of time that he's existed here.

And the planet has always been changing. It's a dynamic ecosystem. It will survive, but it will be different.

[woolybanana]

You mean Miss World will rule the world, Carla Bruni will be Pope and the Kraken will wake. Bobo likes the first two ideas, but I think he is not so sure about Krakens!

[Mr Ceour de Lion II]

Yeah, something like that.

Ever see the movie Idiocracy?

[idun]

YES, he is. He has been saying this for a long time, but really who listens to such good sense.

These days I believe that a general one child, maximum two child policy should start everywhere on the planet.  Any more, unless mulitple births, should be penalised.

[woolybanana]

Could we eat the spare children?

[PaulT]

Current adverts on the TV seem to be about give £2 per month for this that or the other.

A couple of these are to save the starving children and one quotes 2,000 children dying a day from malnutrition. Remember back to 1985 (think it was ) and Band Aid because the children were dying from malnutrition. Well, those children in 1985 might have been saved and grown up and producing the children who are dying of malnutrition today - by the figures above 700,000 per year.

Clearly, the government of the nations involved either cannot or will not feed those children. Perhaps, an appeal for contraceptives might be more appropriate and effective.

The rain forests are being depleted to provide food and sometimes wood for expensive furniture - the UK cannot complain about this too much as it used to be densely forested.

The population of the world constantly increases and Man is extracting minerals etc for its 'development' - steel, plastics etc for our cars, planes, boats etc. The oil to run our transport vehicles and to provide heat and light. Radioactive elements to power our power stations and military craft as well as bombs. In the news now is N Korea and its attempts to produce a nuclear bomb - now what would it want to do with one of those!

Do other animals do as man does? No. They will kill to survive, make nests etc from material that would go to waste and the worst bombs they have belong - or more relevantly are discarded by low flying birds.

This world will be interesting when minerals, oil etc are exhausted.

As for Sir David Attenborough - one brother becomes a Lord for entertaining people the other just gets a Sir for educating people - something wrong methinks.  

[woolybanana]

A knighthood is much more classy than a peerage, IMNVHO.

[Ivor Nidea]

If all the fatties cut out 50% of their daily intake the remainder would feed those that have nothing.

[Rabbie]

I have felt that overpopulation is the key problem just now. I am not sure however that a one child policy is the complete answer as this would lead to an increasingly aging population as can be seen in most 1st world countries with a low birthrate. This causes problems in funding pensions etc.

It seems we are victims of our own success in improved healthcare.

[PaulT]

[quote user="Ivor Nidea"]

If all the fatties cut out 50% of their daily intake the remainder would feed those that have nothing.

[/quote]

So do I take it that the fatties pay to feed those in places such as Africa? Especially when 'dictators' such as Mugabee change their country from the largest food producers on the continent to one whose production is a mere fraction of what the country requires.

Sorry if this sounds harsh but is it a case of the more aid that flows in the more chance there is of the adults producing more children thereby increasing the population with the resultant increase of aid needed so things go from bad to worse.

[Mr Ceour de Lion II]

The problem with overpopulation isn't that the planet is going to be unsustainable, it's where that over population occurs.

In the US for example, take away immigration, the actual population size of the natives is decreasing. More people are dieing than being born, so to take away people's freedoms and rights and limit them to a maximum of 2 children is pointless. I think even the Chinese are coming round and becoming more lenient on this.

Most of the west is similar, fewer people are having so many children, but you go to developing countries and third world countries (India a classic example), they are the ones with multiple births for several reasons. One because mortality is high, secondly because there is little education about sex and pregnancy prevention. So one way to control population is through education, and the developing countries will eventually catch up and eventually the populations there will start to decrease.

Ultimately, what you will end up seeing is nature coming into play. Shortage of food is only one part of the problem, as war, lack of sanitation, healthcare, quality of life and so on will also come into play and nature will take its course there. There will probably be new wars where nations fight over water supplies too, one nation cutting off rivers that flow into neighbouring nations. It's because of this, I don't see the planet ever being dramatically over populated. Nature will take over and cull.

[NormanH]

[quote user="woolybanana"]Could we eat the spare children?[/quote]

A Swift answer:

I have been assured by a

very knowing American of my acquaintance in London, that a young healthy

child well nursed is at a year old a most delicious, nourishing, and

wholesome food, whether stewed, roasted, baked, or boiled; and I make no

doubt that it will equally serve in a fricassee or a ragout.

[Rabbie]

[quote user="NormanH"][quote user="woolybanana"]Could we eat the spare children?[/quote]

A Swift answer:

I have been assured by a

very knowing American of my acquaintance in London, that a young healthy

child well nursed is at a year old a most delicious, nourishing, and

wholesome food, whether stewed, roasted, baked, or boiled; and I make no

doubt that it will equally serve in a fricassee or a ragout.

[/quote]But doesn't this modest proposal also involve rat farming?

[Chancer]

[quote user="Mr Ceour de Lion II"]Ever see the movie Idiocracy?
[/quote]

Only very recently Richard and I can tell you it shook me to the core, it reminded me so much of the populace around me, many many times during the film I saw scenes that I have experienced personally, the disbelief and incomprehension shown to the slightest sign of intelligence, treating politeness and/or correct speech with utter disdain and concluding that the person must therefore be gay spring to mind but there were many others.

On a more global basis I could definitely identify with the mediatisation of mediocracy, idiocracy and celebrity.

It should be required viewing for anyone considering starting a family but then its all about those that dont give the subject a moments consideration any more than they give for others.

How many years ago was it written because it was frighteningly believable.

P.S Due to the snow and panic buying there were near riots at Lidl today as they had run out of Freeway Cola (think Gatorade!)

[Frederick]

Paul T wrote :   So do I take it that the fatties pay to feed those in places such as

Africa? Especially when 'dictators' such as Mugabee change their country

from the largest food producers on the continent to one whose

production is a mere fraction of what the country requires.

Which raises the question ...How long is it going to take before they do manage to feed themselves in Africa ?    They cant say they have not been shown how to do it .

[NormanH]

Perhaps as long as it will take the UK?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/foodanddrinknews/8021327/Britain-least-self-sufficient-in-food-since-1968.html

[woolybanana]

Halal, spit roasted baby, sounds good to me!

[Mr Ceour de Lion II]

[quote user="Chancer"]

[quote user="Mr Ceour de Lion II"]Ever see the movie Idiocracy?

[/quote]

Only very recently Richard and I can tell you it shook me to the core, it reminded me so much of the populace around me, many many times during the film I saw scenes that I have experienced personally, the disbelief and incomprehension shown to the slightest sign of intelligence, treating politeness and/or correct speech with utter disdain and concluding that the person must therefore be gay spring to mind but there were many others.

On a more global basis I could definitely identify with the mediatisation of mediocracy, idiocracy and celebrity.

It should be required viewing for anyone considering starting a family but then its all about those that dont give the subject a moments consideration any more than they give for others.

How many years ago was it written because it was frighteningly believable.

P.S Due to the snow and panic buying there were near riots at Lidl today as they had run out of Freeway Cola (think Gatorade!)

[/quote]

I think it's about 7 or so years old, but you can see society moving that way. At least a great deal of it anyway, as thankfully there's still many intelligent people about.

I posted something on facebook the other day about when you say thank you to someone, the popular comeback is 'uh-huh'. What happened to your welcome (or my personal favorite, no worries)? A couple of grunts is very ignorant, and treats the other person with feelings of contempt. Thankfully, most of the responses were in agreement, but there were a couple accusing me of being old fashioned. I like being old fashioned.

[Ivor Nidea]

PaulT wrote:- So do I take it that the fatties pay to feed those in places such as Africa? Especially when 'dictators' such as Mugabee change their country from the largest food producers on the continent to one whose production is a mere fraction of what the country requires.

 

My point being that those that consume/possess more than they need could feed the other half that have very little.

On the point of over population my own view is that childless adults have a free ride on the backs of those that have children.

[PaulT]

[quote user="Ivor Nidea"]

PaulT wrote:- So do I take it that the fatties pay to feed those in places such as Africa? Especially when 'dictators' such as Mugabee change their country from the largest food producers on the continent to one whose production is a mere fraction of what the country requires.

 

My point being that those that consume/possess more than they need could feed the other half that have very little. Ah, communism and we have seen how well that works.

On the point of over population my own view is that childless adults have a free ride on the backs of those that have children. Interesting, as someone who does not have children, I have therefore not claimed child allowance, my taxes have paid for the education of those who have children and their healthcare, subsidised their 'free child places' on holidays etc - some free ride!

[/quote]

[PaulT]

[quote user="woolybanana"]A knighthood is much more classy than a peerage, IMNVHO.[/quote]

The difference though is that the one with the peerage sits in the House of Lords and is part of the law making process - I would prefer an educator to do that than an actor.

[Théière]

[quote user="PaulT"][quote user="Ivor Nidea"]

PaulT wrote:- So do I take it that the fatties pay to feed those in places such as Africa? Especially when 'dictators' such as Mugabee change their country from the largest food producers on the continent to one whose production is a mere fraction of what the country requires.

 

My point being that those that consume/possess more than they need could feed the other half that have very little. They do by providing work and spending some of their money back into the local economy

On the point of over population my own view is that childless adults have a free ride on the backs of those that have children. Interesting, as someone who does not have children, I have therefore not claimed child allowance, my taxes have paid for the education of those who have children and their healthcare, subsidised their 'free child places' on holidays etc - some free ride!

Seconded!

[/quote][/quote]

 

 

[idun]

A new argument brought in, childlessness.

When I was up to say my early twenties I didn't want kids. However, even if I hadn't had any, not got pregnant, I would not have been bothered, I would never have thought that I was overpaying anything at all. I always  understood that I still wanted the human race to continue, so someone would have children.

So if some people don't want kids, some cannot have them. The fact is still there, that the person without sexual desire, at least as some point in their life, must be very very rare. Like the animals we are, the need is there in the majority of us to copulate at some point in our lives, and in the old days the consequence would be pregnancy............

Do we go back to the old days, get rid of modern medicine and everyone have loadsakids and let many of them die.

No, we maybe animals but there is still no excuse for us over producing ourselves. We have the medicines, we have the birth control. We as humans will continue to have sexual intercourse, so cultures and religions need to change, show that they have some good sense and preach the message to those that follow them, to stop over populating, which in itself should really help to aleviate poverty. Overproducing should be held as evil and wrong, and the worst thing for the planet.......... putting recycling things as an innocent distraction.

Wish David Attenborough would get taken seriously.

[Mr Ceour de Lion II]

But it's the developing world and third world that is having the population explosions. The western world is actually breaking even or decreasing its population. These developing and third world nations barely have control as it is without adding the extra burden of population control in the mix too. And who has the right to say a couple can only have so many kids anyway? And what if that couple divorce and have new partners? How many kids can they have?