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You don't get owt for nowt


Frederick

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As my grandmother used to say ..... Unless you own land of course

There is a bit of a row going on over the protection of the subsidy from the EU as many land owners are taking it and not touching their land  And they are fighting to keep it that way . . The suggestion is they should be made to use the land for the money given ...even if its just on protection of wildlife projects  which I think is a good idea 

This link shows those who in 2011 took over a million euros in subsidy   .I expected to find a few UK  landed gentry and County Councils on the list . But not distilleries ... I would have thought they did not  need it ?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0At9hEvGB0JsUdFpObW1NeGhYRTVjNFFXUjBRbUxQenc#gid=1

 

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[quote user="Frederick"]As my grandmother used to say ..... Unless you own land of course

This link shows those who in 2011 took over a million euros in subsidy   .I expected to find a few UK  landed gentry and County Councils on the list.  But not distilleries ... I would have thought they did not  need it ?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0At9hEvGB0JsUdFpObW1NeGhYRTVjNFFXUjBRbUxQenc#gid=1[/quote]

[quote user="Patf"]I can't get your link.[/quote]

 Pat ... a clickable link.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0At9hEvGB0JsUdFpObW1NeGhYRTVjNFFXUjBRbUxQenc#gid=1

Sue

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[quote user="Patf"]I expect you're referring to UK land, not french (though probably there's a similar situation here.)

I can't get your link.

[/quote]

Thank you for lighting up the link Sue.... its something I am yet to make work

Patf ... I was interested to see who in the UK got the biggest lump of subsidy ...  The EU's  recipients  are all in the list ... Spain is at the top  France not far behind

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Not this old onion again!

Look the French get more because of their inheritance laws. French farms have been divided up many times as they filter through families due to death. A farmer is entitled to a specific wage which is subsidised up to that wage. I can't remember off the top of my head but it is something like a minimum of 30,000 Euros per year. Trouble is a lot of land in France has been divided so many times that it ends up the size of a tennis court. There is no way a farmer can make 30k out of the land, he would be lucky to make 5k. Under EU rules he is a farmer therefore he gets a subsidy of 25k to bring him up to 30k. I know quite a few French people who get farm subsidies in France and they are as much of a farmer as me but then that's the system for you. French farmers as a whole get more subsidies where as British farmers don't because they have much bigger farms with much bigger earning potentials. Something clearly has to be done about it to make things fair but if anyone can come up with such a solution they would be a hero. As the saying goes, anyone know a poor farmer?

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 You are right Q

 I am not beating any drum over this ............I just  think being made to work the land  for the benefit of wildlife is a great way for it to be used if their land is not in production   . From what I heard on the radio there are many who don't even want to do that for the subsidy ...They just want to keep taking the money and do nothing .    Nice if you can get it ... but is it right ?

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Drat! My name isn't on the list; I missed out again.

I'm a bit surprised by your statement Q, that British farms are bigger! I live in an agricultural area and the farms are enormous, single fields (no hedgerows) of wheat stretching as far as the eye can see (almost).

As I understand it here in our village there were many farms at one time, just big enough to be worked by a farmer and a few labourers, but mechanisation has meant that one man can now look after several of these at once and what's happened is that they small farms have been bought up and merged.

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[quote user="Quillan"]

Not this old onion again!

Look the French get more because of their inheritance laws. French farms have been divided up many times as they filter through families due to death. A farmer is entitled to a specific wage which is subsidised up to that wage. I can't remember off the top of my head but it is something like a minimum of 30,000 Euros per year. Trouble is a lot of land in France has been divided so many times that it ends up the size of a tennis court. There is no way a farmer can make 30k out of the land, he would be lucky to make 5k. Under EU rules he is a farmer therefore he gets a subsidy of 25k to bring him up to 30k. I know quite a few French people who get farm subsidies in France and they are as much of a farmer as me but then that's the system for you. French farmers as a whole get more subsidies where as British farmers don't because they have much bigger farms with much bigger earning potentials. Something clearly has to be done about it to make things fair but if anyone can come up with such a solution they would be a hero. As the saying goes, anyone know a poor farmer?

[/quote]

 

Something odd here. I am watching Countryfile, the one featuring Prince Charles. It has just been stated that the average income of an uplands farmer is less than £14,000 p.a., so that many of them have to have a second job.

Maybe the "EU Rules" you mention are French rules?

 

 

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[quote user="nomoss"]

Something odd here. I am watching Countryfile, the one featuring Prince Charles. It has just been stated that the average income of an uplands farmer is less than £14,000 p.a., so that many of them have to have a second job.

Maybe the "EU Rules" you mention are French rules?

[/quote]

Actually it was the same program about two years ago where they talked about the subsidies which is why, as I said, I don't remember the exact amount. That aside 30k Euros per year is not exactly a fortune and I would suspect in this day and age that people would have second jobs even with the subsidy. No I was talking about EU rules.

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[quote user="sid"]

Drat! My name isn't on the list; I missed out again.

I'm a bit surprised by your statement Q, that British farms are bigger! I live in an agricultural area and the farms are enormous, single fields (no hedgerows) of wheat stretching as far as the eye can see (almost).

As I understand it here in our village there were many farms at one time, just big enough to be worked by a farmer and a few labourers, but mechanisation has meant that one man can now look after several of these at once and what's happened is that they small farms have been bought up and merged.

[/quote]

Of course there are big farms in France but there are a ,lot of very small, micro farms, as well. Also perhaps some of these small farms are rented out to other farmers to make a bigger farm. My experience of the French in my area is that they won't normally talk about this sort of thing. What I do know is the name of the game is to get as much money out of the system as you can and continue to look poor.

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[quote user="nomoss"][quote user="Quillan"]

There is no way a farmer can make 30k out of the land, he would be lucky to make 5k. Under EU rules he is a farmer therefore he gets a subsidy of 25k to bring him up to 30k.  As the saying goes, anyone know a poor farmer?

[/quote]

Something odd here. I am watching Countryfile, the one featuring Prince Charles. It has just been stated that the average income of an uplands farmer is less than £14,000 p.a., so that many of them have to have a second job.

Maybe the "EU Rules" you mention are French rules?

 [/quote]

I was about to come back with this snippet - but you got there first.  I was brought up in the foothills of the Pennines - surrounded by farmland.  It was somewhat better country than the uplands, but still not easy.  There were indeed some wealthy farmers, but there were plenty of poor ones too.

Then I happened to be working at MAF when the foot and mouth crisis happened - helping to "man" the advice / helpline .... there were many poor farmers needing help ...  it was obvious then that poverty was hitting farmers - never mind the daily work schedule and the isolation and depression - and I can see no reason for that to have improved - only got worse.

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In the village I live in now and the one about six miles away where I lived for many years, there are no farmers left. All the land is farmed under contract. This means that the countryside around these parts has a very uncared for look. The ditches aren't cleared and the hedges aren't laid.

In France, just one of my neighbours manages to keep his dairy herd going but I can tell that the cows are kept 'close to the edge'. None of the fat milk cows of my youth that's for sure. He only manages to eek out a living by doing contract work for other farmers. I'm not sure how subsidies work.

As the original poster said actually owning the land is the key I think.

Hoddy
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Sue 56 thanks for the link [:)]

Interesting, though overwhelming. I noticed my home county, Northumberland, was high up on the list (186.)

Farms here are still small, (Gers) but as the old folk retire, and offspring don't want to take over, they are beginning to be taken over by the fewer and fewer young farmers .

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Going from memory I believe France gets  the largest payout  about 17% of the total subsidy pot  Over 50 % of French farmers have a holding  in the region of  15 acres .. The UK gets about 7% out of the pot.. A lot of that to big estates

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