Cyprus bailout . Bank accounts frozen for the weekend !

[Frederick]

This has to be a first for the troubled Euro !  Depositors accounts raided .

http://www.eubusiness.com/news-eu/finance-public-debt.mz8/

The Cypriot government was in a race against the clock Saturday to

push through a deeply unpopular levy on all deposits in the island's

banks that it agreed to in return for a 10-billion-euro ($13 billion) EU

bailout.

The government has to get the necessary legislation

through parliament to ratify the unprecedented tax before banks reopen

their doors on Tuesday after a holiday weekend on the Mediterranean

island.

People who sold property in the UK bought cheaper in Cyprus and deposited  money in their banks will be very unhappy today !

 

[Rabbie]

People with less than €100 000 in their accounts will pay 6.75% - those with over €100 000 will pay 9.9%. Seemingly a lot of depositors are russian money launderers. See this link for more info

[Frederick]

Who gave these people the power to just decide that a bail out repayment should mean that a bank holiday be declared  and accounts frozen  while a percentage of account holders money is removed from their accounts  over a weekend ? They certainly know how to turn people against them in the Brussels  Kremlin. that is EU HQ today  . When and where  will they strike next and what will the percentage be ?   What are they secretly up to pulling off next to strip people of more of  their cash .  

 

[Rabbie]

[quote user="Frederick"]Who gave these people the power to just decide that a bail out repayment should mean that a bank holiday be declared  and accounts frozen  while a percentage of account holders money is removed from their accounts  over a weekend ? They certainly know how to turn people against them in the Brussels  Kremlin. that is EU HQ today  . When and where  will they strike next and what will the percentage be ?   What are they secretly up to pulling off next to strip people of more of  their cash .  
 


[/quote]The Cypriot people presumably gave their government the power to do this. Probably better than the country going bankrupt

[Bugsy]

What ill thought out logic by the Bundestag.

Will they be surprised, or even care that come Tuesday there will be such a run on the banks as ordinary savers remove all their savings, not just in Cyprus either but everywhere within the euro-zone. Total fucking idiots.

Interesting slant on this by Robert Peston

[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21812853[/url]

"So the only way to get the bailout through the Bundestag is for the launderers to be taxed to the tune of almost 10% of their allegedly ill-gotten cash. And if innocent savers are hurt too, that is the way this particular "Keks" will crumble."

Sums it up really, they don't give a fuck about us.

.

[Frederick]

Even British servicemen are angry  they have been hit by this in Cyprus

http://money.uk.msn.com/britons-hit-by-cyprus-bank-bailout-1

[Rabbie]

While I am desparately sorry for the non=lauderers who have to pay this tax I feel the alternative of no bail out would have been even worse for them. At the end of the day the German parliaments prime responsibilty is to the german electors and not to customers of a cyprus bank.

[Frederick]

[quote user="Rabbie"]While I am desparately sorry for the non=lauderers who have to pay this tax I feel the alternative of no bail out would have been even worse for them. At the end of the day the German parliaments prime responsibilty is to the german electors and not to customers of a cyprus bank.[/quote]

If the Cyprus bank staff open up on Tuesday ....They are in for a very rough time ...I read the anger this has generated there could turn really nasty.

[Quillan]

[quote user="Rabbie"][quote user="Frederick"]Who gave these people the power to just decide that a bail out repayment should mean that a bank holiday be declared  and accounts frozen  while a percentage of account holders money is removed from their accounts  over a weekend ? They certainly know how to turn people against them in the Brussels  Kremlin. that is EU HQ today  . When and where  will they strike next and what will the percentage be ?   What are they secretly up to pulling off next to strip people of more of  their cash .  
 


[/quote]The Cypriot people presumably gave their government the power to do this. Probably better than the country going bankrupt[/quote]

Exactly.

Before we all start getting out of our pram perhaps we should return to the link in the original post. To my mind the EU has said "You know what we are sick of bailing countries out, you can't have the €17bn Euros you asked for, you can only have €10bn  and you have to raise the rest yourself.", quite rightly so as well. The charges that will/are be/ing imposed on savers is nothing to do whatsoever with the EU, it is purely an internal matter designed to raise the extra €7bn Euros. Tell you what I wish I could have paid just 12.5% corporation tax let alone 10% when I had a company. Cyprus has always been an excellent country in which to place your money if you want to avoid paying tax and we are talking way before the Russians appeared on the scene. Have a word with Asil Nadar, him of Poly Peck Fame. He might be in prison but where is his money, in a Cyprus bank of course, he is no fool.

Think we all need to do a little more independent research before emotionally shooting from the hip and making ourselves look rather stupid.

[Quillan]

[quote user="Frederick"][quote user="Rabbie"]While I am desparately sorry for the non=lauderers who have to pay this tax I feel the alternative of no bail out would have been even worse for them. At the end of the day the German parliaments prime responsibilty is to the german electors and not to customers of a cyprus bank.[/quote]

If the Cyprus bank staff open up on Tuesday ....They are in for a very rough time ...I read the anger this has generated there could turn really nasty.
[/quote]

Yep and you reap what you sow.

[Rose (& Greyman)]

[quote user="Quillan"] Tell you what I wish I could have paid just 12.5% corporation tax let alone 10% when I had a company. Cyprus has always been an excellent country in which to place your money if you want to avoid paying tax and we are talking way before the Russians appeared on the scene. ...................

Think we all need to do a little more independent research before emotionally shooting from the hip and making ourselves look rather stupid.

[/quote]

I think you are misunderstanding Quillan. The levy on Cypriot savers is 6.75% or 9.9% of their CAPITAL. So in your corporation tax analogy it would be like a one-off tax taking your last 5 years profits in full.

I'd be shooting from the hip if that happened to me as a prudent saver. Yet again this crisis has seen savers hammered while borrowers (private, corporate and governments) have been protected.[:@]

[Bugsy]

Interesting quote:

"So the only way to get the bailout through the Bundestag is for the launderers to be taxed to the tune of almost 10% of their allegedly ill-gotten cash. And if innocent savers are hurt too, that is the way this particular "Keks" will crumble."

[Rabbie]

[quote user="greyman"][quote user="Quillan"] Tell you what I wish I could have paid just 12.5% corporation tax let alone 10% when I had a company. Cyprus has always been an excellent country in which to place your money if you want to avoid paying tax and we are talking way before the Russians appeared on the scene. ...................

Think we all need to do a little more independent research before emotionally shooting from the hip and making ourselves look rather stupid.

[/quote]

I think you are misunderstanding Quillan. The levy on Cypriot savers is 6.75% or 9.9% of their CAPITAL. So in your corporation tax analogy it would be like a one-off tax taking your last 5 years profits in full.

I'd be shooting from the hip if that happened to me as a prudent saver. Yet again this crisis has seen savers hammered while borrowers (private, corporate and governments) have been protected.[:@]
[/quote]How would they have felt if their bank had gone bust with no bailout? As I said earlier I have great sympathy for those people who have been hit but why should the Germans bail them out?

[Rose (& Greyman)]

There are two issues here Rabbie. Firstly the Germans have benefited hugely by the farce that is the Euro, so it seems fair that they take some of the pain now.

Secondly, why are just the savers being hammered ? Why not a 10% levy on corporate assets, a levy on loans and mortgages, on private property, I could go on. Savers have been living with effective negative interest rates for years now whilst borrowers have had it good. Time for the pain to be spread I think.

[Patf]

Doesn't Krusty live on Cyprus? (Songs we are singing thread.)

I wonder what he has to say about it? Where are you Krusty?

[mint]

[quote user="greyman"]There are two issues here Rabbie. Firstly the Germans have benefited hugely by the farce that is the Euro, so it seems fair that they take some of the pain now.
Secondly, why are just the savers being hammered ? Why not a 10% levy on corporate assets, a levy on loans and mortgages, on private property, I could go on. Savers have been living with effective negative interest rates for years now whilst borrowers have had it good. Time for the pain to be spread I think.
[/quote]

Greyman, I couldn't agree more.  Spoken like a true "money-man" who can understand these things [:D]

I, for one, am fed up of having had my savings raided by the UK government who are now thinking of lowering the base rate to 0.25% (documented after last month's BoE meeting) and talk of UK banks charging for current accounts.

I hope this doesn't give other countries in the EU or Britain any ideas [+o(]

Patf, I, too, thought of Krusty and perhaps he'll come on and give us his slant on this.  Come on, Krust, you're our man in Cyprus!

[Quillan]

[quote user="greyman"]Firstly the Germans have benefited hugely by the farce that is the Euro, so it seems fair that they take some of the pain now.
[/quote]

I repeated that to my German guests at breakfast this morning, poor chap nearly choked on his cornflakes. I don't think the average German quite sees it that way. Most of them want to know why they have to keep bailing out countries, seems to them that Brussels makes the deal then turns to Germany and asks for the money. This time they have said they will help but Cyprus also has to help it's self as well. So it is not the EU that has put this tax rise in place it is Cyprus. They could use any method they like just as long as they find the extra 7bn Euros.

What about the 'farce' that is the US dollar. Many US states are hugely in debt and I heard on the news that one is about to declare bankrupt unless it gets more money from the federal government. There is no difference really between the EU and the US except currently the EU can't raise a tax directly where as the US can. While we are talking about 'federalised' countries you would be surprised just how many there are. Now Australia is a federal state and that has a single currency like the EU and the US and it works just fine.

[suein56]

[quote user="sweet 17"]I hope this doesn't give other countries in the EU or Britain any ideas ... [/quote]

But Sweet France already does this, just in a slightly different way, when it takes up to 15.5% of income every year, on top of income tax, and with no tax-free allowance. It's called Contributions Sociales !!!

Sue

[Frederick]

Now Australia is a federal state and that has a single currency like the EU and the US and it works just fine.

It does for Australia because she has no money worries due to selling the country by the ship load because its made of iron ore and coal . If that stops things might be different

[krusty]

Bonjour people , thank you for thinking of me.

As you would expect this is the number one topic this weekend. Most people would have been aware something was on the cards for a long time now , Cyprus applied for the bailout in the middle of last year , so people have had a long time to move their money out.

I myself never moved my savings over here (it's in the IOM). We keep a small amount of cash in a Cyprus bank and this latest event will cost us about 200e.

The money that is being taken out of people's accounts will be replaced by shares in two different Cyprus banks .

[Mr Ceour de Lion II]

[quote user="Frederick"]Now Australia is a federal state and that has a single currency like the EU and the US and it works just fine.

It does for Australia because she has no money worries due to selling the country by the ship load because its made of iron ore and coal . If that stops things might be different

[/quote]

Not to mention it only has a small population which helps.

But it is also very expensive to live there.

[just john]

I think I'd rather have my money devalued, than stolen, at least
"It does not mean that the pound here in Britain, in your pocket or purse or in your bank, has been devalued"

 

[Quillan]

[quote user="Frederick"]Now Australia is a federal state and that has a single currency like the EU and the US and it works just fine.

It does for Australia because she has no money worries due to selling the country by the ship load because its made of iron ore and coal . If that stops things might be different
[/quote]

Yes but if you were to look at the whole of the EU as a federal state then it would proportionally be equal if not bigger in it's exports than Australia. The problem for the EU is it is not a federal state which really it ought to be from a logical point of view. If it were the problems that Italy, Greece, Spain, UK and Cyprus would, as far as a federal state is concerned, virtually disappear or become hidden just like in the US.

[Mr Ceour de Lion II]

It sounds like the EU is only something slightly better than what the US had before it drew up its constitution. It originally brought the 13 states together under the Articles of Confederation for several years, but that failed because there was no real authority amongst other things (lack of a single currency for example). Sounds like the EU is somewhere in between that and a proper federation. I think it needs to make up its mind what it wants to be.

[Quillan]

[quote user="Mr Ceour de Lion II"]It sounds like the EU is only something slightly better than what the US had before it drew up its constitution. It originally brought the 13 states together under the Articles of Confederation for several years, but that failed because there was no real authority amongst other things (lack of a single currency for example). Sounds like the EU is somewhere in between that and a proper federation. I think it needs to make up its mind what it wants to be.
[/quote]

Exactly. America or the US if you want went all through this and had massive problems to start with. The EU needs to take that final step but should look at the US and what happened there then not make the same mistakes i.e. just take the good parts. It will happen, probably not in my lifetime which is a shame unfortunately. The EU needs to go onwards and upwards rather than backwards because whinging 'states' prattle on about sovereignty.

In some ways it is a little like the old British railways system when they were all individual companies with their own clocks. Loads of initial problems when they were combined but more efficient when they all used the same clock. They also managed to keep their old names as as well for many years, indeed some are still using their original names today.