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Another group of people who may not be voting UKIP?


 YCCMB

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Yes 3042 Brits claiming in France (where the benefits are a % of  the last wage, so usually much higher than in the UK) as against 2810 French claiming in the UK.

You  could add to this the host of Brits being treated on an S1 in the more costly (more generous or less efficient?) French health system who might not wish to see the UK leave the EU.

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[quote user="You can call me Betty"]http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jan/19/-sp-thousands-britons-claim-benefits-eu

Seems "benefit. Tourism" isn't just something the UK suffers from.....[/quote]

But surely, Betty, the Brits who come to France come for the opportunities, the quality of life, the lack of crime and the wonderful country, unlike the foreigners who go to the UK purely for the benefits.......
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The item in the Grauniad is a typical surface conclusion from skewed statistics: and those of us dealing with statistical analysis, regularly, can make numbers apparently "prove" anything..

In order to compare disparate data sets, one must first adjust the datum to try and emulate a Like for Like basis. Do Germany, Spain, France et al have a massive cost equivalent to Housing Benefit? (Holistic, not segmented).

We all know how difficult it is to claim and receive benefits in France: it is contribution-based, whereas in the UK it isn't.

Same with healthcare: Britain, sadly, has nothing equivalent to CPAM etc.

Spain, for example, demands civic activity in exchange for unemployment benefit: last year in Andalusia, I watched people pulling up weeds along the roads and pavements. They were unemployed.

The English man living in Germany surely places a different spin on the proposition? As does the language teacher in Madrid. Since whilst UK's JSA is indeed quite small, those with little financial assets (or alleged little!) can claim a raft of additional benefits. As we know..........

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Not so, Norman. HB is only paid direct to councils or housing associations. Unless specific arrangements are requested or problems anticipated (e.g. Existing arrears) then it's not automatic for private landlords to be paid directly.

Even for council tenants, once the universal credit scheme is fully operational (if ever) then they will get the money and it's their responsibility to pay the rent from it.
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My point is that it is the landlord who banks the money, not the tenant.

In France APL is paid direct to the landlord if the tenant asks, or if payments are not made in which case the landlord can insist on direct payment.

I agree that the first payment is not automatically given to the land lord.

In any case it is a situation where the state pays people who are wealthy enough to have property to let and they are the ones who put it in their pockets.

 

 

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'' Yes 3042 Brits claiming in France (where the benefits are a % of the last wage, so usually much higher than in the UK) as against 2810 French claiming in the UK.''

Presumably the Brits claiming in France were previously employed in France in order to receive a contribution based benefit. Or is there some sort of minimum payment in France for someone who has never actually contributed ( unlike UK where, I believe, no contribution history is required at all )
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Unemployment benefit in France( ARE ) is calculated on your last earnings  (the old earnings -related benefit in the UK)

http://www.pole-emploi.fr/candidat/le-montant-de-votre-allocation-@/suarticle.jspz?id=4125

Once the period during which these are paid has been exhausted the RSA takes over

http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/particuliers/F19781.xhtml

The RSA can also be paid to 'foreigers' on condition that they haven't come to France just to claim benefit

http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/particuliers/F24637.xhtml

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One wonders if France has matching benefits to these UK concepts?

Attendance Allowance

external

Additional State

Pension external

Bereavement Allowance

Bereavement Payment

Budgeting Loan

Carer's Allowance

Carer's Credit

Child Benefit

Child Maintenance

Child Tax Credits

(see Tax Credits )

Christmas Bonus

Cold Weather Payment

Community Care Grant

Compensation for

victims of crime

Constant Attendance

Allowance

Crisis Loans

Disability Living

Allowance

Employment and

Support Allowance

Funeral Payment

Guardians Allowance

Help with health

costs

Home Responsibilities

Protection - now Carer's Credit

Housing Benefit

Housing Benefit

Extended Payment

Incapacity Benefit

Income Support

Independent Living

Fund

Industrial Death

Benefit

Industrial Injuries

Disablement Benefit (accidents)

Industrial Injuries

Disablement Benefit (diseases and deafness)

Jobseeker's Allowance

Maternity Allowance

Motability

Over 80 Pension

Pension Credit

Pneumoconiosis,

byssinosis & misc. disease scheme benefits

Reduced Earnings

Allowance

Redundancy Pay

Retirement Allowance

Severe Disablement

Allowance

Second State Pension

(see Additional State Pension )

State Pension

Statutory Adoption

Pay

Statutory Maternity

Pay

Statutory Paternity

Pay

Statutory Sick Pay

Sure Start Maternity

Grant

Tax Credits

Travelling Expenses

Vaccine damage

War Disablement

Pension

War Widow or Widower's

Pension

Widowed Parent's

Allowance

Winter Fuel Payment

Working Tax Credit

(see Tax Credits )

Workmen's

Compensation (Supplementation) Scheme

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Life is too short for me to find out, but I do know of British people here claiming l'allocation pour adulte handicapé

(800€ http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/particuliers/F12242.xhtml )  despite never having paid anything to France and others 'forgetting' to declare income they receive from letting out their houses in the UK while claiming RSA and APL in France....

For interest which items in your list do you regard as being unjustified?

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[quote user="NormanH"]

For interest which items in your list do you regard as being unjustified?

[/quote]

I make absolutely no comment on that question, Norman. Other than..........

See here:

However, I would say most benefits in Europe (UK excepted) insofar as entitlement be concerned are based upon contribution record over a minimum qualifying period.

More critically still, with France, the Social Security Budget is a separate fiscal matter, requiring a further vote: additionally and more critically, unlike the UK, Social Security spending is ring fenced within the constraints of that budget and is directly related to Cotisations: and not, as in UK, treated as a general melting pot, despite the singular reality of millions of workers having paid ostensibly work related NIC since they commenced working. (The core ethos was of course embodied in Lloyd George's Peoples  Budget - enacted by his successor Herbert Asquith in 1910. There was, then no element of healthcare since the NHS was not brought into being until Clem Attlee's Labour government, post WWII, by Nye Bevan in 1948.)

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[quote user="lindal1000"]So how come then Gluestick, we don't pay any tax d'habitation because our income is too low?. This was not a benefit we applied for or paid in for and seems to have been dished out solely on the basis of our tax return. Not complaining but seems pretty generous to me.[/quote]

Firstly, lindal, Tax d'Habitation is not a national tax and benefit, system, rather, as it used to be in the UK (before Thatcher determined all local rates (as they were) would be sequestrated into the central Westminster purse: and then handed back on a bid basis) it was very much a local fiscal matter and County determination. Only one element of T d 'H has national relevance, the annual audio-visual license fee.

The major difference between the French and UK systems are, as I earlier stated, the Social Security system is funded through cotisations and the whole budget is separate from the core national fiscal ambit.

One further point: French contributions and benefits are strictly means tested (as is T d'H): whereas far too many UK benefits are not. The old system of Invalidity Benefit (IB) is perhaps a prime example. Not only was it not means tested, it was not taxable, either. And many present UK benefits are not taxable, either. Furthermore, once IB was awarded, if prior to state retirement age, it was permanent.

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I don't think child benefit in France is means tested. Don't know for sure as I have no kids but I'm pretty sure it's available to anyone with kids who is a resident.

I'm not sure I agree about invalidity benefit being means tested. Think of someone like Stephen Hawkins, who needs 24 hour card in order to get out of bed, let alone do a full days work. Now it just so happens that he has such a brilliant mind that he can earn enough money to pay for that care..but why shouldn't he be entitled to financial support to enable him to work?
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[quote user="lindal1000"]I don't think child benefit in France is means tested. Don't know for sure as I have no kids but I'm pretty sure it's available to anyone with kids who is a resident.[/quote]

As I understand it, lindal, I believe you are correct. The Children's Subsidy, is an automatic right.

As French friends, incandescent with rage pointed out a year ago, also, parents having kids of school age, receive a large cash grant. Intended for uniforms, clothes, books, etc. However, the sales of plasma screen TVs locally, rocketed............

[quote] I'm not sure I agree about invalidity benefit being means tested.[/quote]

Sadly, far too many, under the old system Ian Duncan Smith has been manfully attempting to modernise (without much cross-party support), were originally recipients of Sickness Benefit. Nothing wrong with this; since in order to so qualify, the applicant could not be in gainful, paid employ.

However, after a period they were automatically moved onto Invalidity Benefit: and then could carry on working as before!

And receive IB in perpetuity.

[quote]Think of someone like Stephen Hawkins, who needs 24 hour card in order to get out of bed, let alone do a full days work. Now it just so happens that he has such a brilliant mind that he can earn enough money to pay for that care..but why shouldn't he be entitled to financial support to enable him to work?[/quote]

Simply because a Golden Goose can only produce a certain number of eggs...

For myself, those who really need care support and significant money, simply are not receiving it. Consider the present travesty of those who elect to live at home, rather than bed Block in NHS hospitals etc. and be treated as if they were sick cattle.

The level of care and support they receive is now utterly shameful!

IMHO, a stable balanced and equitable society must always nurture and help the "Halt the lame and the sick": forgive the biblical quotation. It is amatter of moral conscience.

However what it seems to be doing is support those who really do not actually need support.

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