nomoss Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Quite apt, ebaynut, the only point you missed out is that, back in 1973, no-one in the UK was really made aware that in the preamble of the founding treaty was the essential driving force behind it.The signatories to the Treaty of Rome declared that they were "determined to lay the foundations for an ever closer union between the peoples of Europe"Not just a trading agreement, then, but I for one cannot remember this small detail being mentioned in the rush to join the "Common Market" - the name which the EEC was given in the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marmite Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 I also agree with ebaynuts comments, it seems that all the people who "didnt win" are now having a hissy fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chessie Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Thank you so much ebaynut for a wonderful, clear and honest explanation of how the UK finds itself 'where it is'.I remember the smirk on Heath's face when he was interviewed about the 'common market' - and his phrase 'there will be no loss of sovereignty' - who remembers that interview ?His smirking admission that he 'HAD LIED'.The generation that believed him were betrayed; he was a Traitor - and has been hated by many - for a long, long time.This is why a certain generation are cynical about politicians, are more than cynical about the eu - and the 'leaders' - we do NOT trust any of them, none.Maybe you will begin to understand your mother's viewpoint. It would have worked if left to the 6 or 7 'founding countries' - but 'they' couldn't stop themselves. The power-mad elites destroyed the dream. I'm heart-broken; it could have been good - but was destroyed by the greed of the elites.When you hear the politicos even admit themselves 'that the eu needs reform' - but we should remain and 'try' to make a difference. Why ? We've tried, and been kicked; we are sneered at by the 'elites' in the eu - our input counts for no more than any other country.Look at the 5 Presidents Report; Agenda 21; wait for the 'plans for the future' that are supposed to be published this week (but are probably on hold for the moment) - about the 'elites' plans for the little people; the tax and welfare harmonisation; the eu-wide income tax ideas - they will not stop.I also believe that there was a large number of voters for 'Brexit' who in their hearts don't really want that - but regard this as a big wake up call to the eu 'elites' - that the eu does need Reform - and a change of attitude. But hearing the bile from Junker maybe, just maybe, the UK has had a lucky escape - because things in europe are going to get nasty - and that's with 27 - and counting - countries all supposedly working in harmony and union.Whatever the costs to the UK, and our own pockets - it is possibly one of the UK's finest hours; look at the snowflakes - imagine if there had been a large contingent of the snowflakes around at the start of 1914, or 1939 - the world would be very different.I think I'd better go and have lunch, enjoy the best of what France has to offer - and accept that if, or when, we return to UK - we will only be able to afford to live in a camper van, or a caravan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbie Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Caroline, for once I agree with Ebaynut. It is never worth falling out with your close family over how they voted. At the end of the day they are still your family and your mother's vote did not affect the result at all. We have put moving to France onto the back burner and are looking at other options. Everyone has to make their own judgements on what is best for them and vote accordingly. All that is clear at the moment is that everything is very confused Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulT Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 I find it slightly odd moaning about immigrants on a forum that is for people from outside of France who either reside or have a property in France. Ah, sorry, the British in France are not immigrants but awfully nice people buying up properties that the French do not want thereby reviving communities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patf Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 re: Ebaynut's post:Eldest son sent me a photo of a postage stamp he has kept in his wallet since 1973 - a picture of Europe as a jigsaw, with the UK flag in one corner. He said I had it stuck on one of the kitchen cabinets in our (then ) family home. So we must have been pleased to join then. I still am, but things change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebaynut Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Call me suspicious if you will, but I did think maybe ‘Normandy Caroline’ is in fact a journalist for the complete France group, who now finding they need to get some articles out about this great turn of events before the deadline, and so asked the question to gauge reaction and get ideas. Never posted before, but had a lifetime ‘dream’ of buying in France and was near to signing, then suddenly this probing thread. Read the first post again, and see what you think. [Www] As a side issue, I think Liam Fox would make a good Prime minister, I would like to see him stand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Ebaynut, the arguments you put forward are basically, selfish, dog in a manger nationalism, which was precisely the ambience I found in UK during the actual referendum. Farage is closer to Marine Le Pen than he would like to admit and is, rightly, being excluded from the rest of the negotiation process.The triumph of White Van Man is a shame to the British people who have been manipulated into voting away their futures, or at least that of a whole generation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulT Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 WB in your last paragraph, sadly,I think you can leave out the 'Van' based on people I have spoken to in the UK who voted Leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Well done, Paul, you are right; a significant number of those I met drive top of the range Audis, Mercedes, Lexi (?), Range Rovers and Jags. Most have never met an immigrant in their lives except as someone serving them though they may have been happy to employ them as builders and fixers because they work cheap.I have also come across some kids who are furious with their parents for voting Brexit because their futures are *uked because they work in the City; some will lose their jobs, some will follow the company to places like Ireland. Ironically it is the old folk who will experience much more difficult to the beloved grandchildren.I wonder if property prices will drop; the good side of Brexit then because it might enable some younger folk to get on the property ladder instead of having to sell their souls to landlords? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 [quote user="woolybanana"]Ebaynut, the arguments you put forward are basically, selfish, dog in a manger nationalism, [/quote] Can you explain to me what that means please? The dog in a manger bit, I understand selfishness and nationalism. I also know the phrase like a dog with a bone but not dog in a manger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulT Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 There you go Chancer:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dog_in_the_Manger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Hello Chancer, surprised you didnt know what 'dog in a manger' means. But, in this case, one post at least objected to money from national budgets going, via Europe, to help the new and poorer members of the EU. (Though they seem to have missed a trick, as the richer the poorer get, the less need they will have to leave their country and get jobs elsewhere, meaning England).In other words, UK has the means to help which it wont or cant use itself for its own purposes but is determined to stop others getting any of it.Imagine Farage standing in a giant pot of British money (or the equivalent) which is sleeping and unused and swinging a large stick at other, much poorer and even hungry people, to stop them getting a bit.Now, if I had been a cartoonist, that would have been a good picture! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Normandie Caroline Posted June 28, 2016 Author Share Posted June 28, 2016 I am so saddened at the far reaching divisive influence of the Brexit result. Apart from the latent racism which is looking like a genie busily squeezing itself out of its bottle, there now seem to be two groups; the disaffected and the unaffected.Much of Somerset is full of well off people, enjoying the benefits of gold-plated public sector pensions. And as you rightly said, the only time they come into contact with an immigrant is when they toddle along to the gasto pub or have a new bathroom fitted. This is the unaffected group who voted to leave because they do not perceive being in any way adversely affected by the leave vote.The disaffected group seem to feel they have nothing left to lose. They have seen their towns crumble around them over decades, due to many reasons; the main one of which is de-industrialisation, as manufacturing has been shut down, factories and mines closed. The decay has been spreading for years and a vacuum was created as no new innovation or investement was there to replace it. It is not suprising that the dissafected would blame the relatively late influx of migrant workers, expecially if they are surrounded by people who don't speak their language, or don't share their point of view, or who they perceive as clogging up hospitals and schools. But the vacuum that these immigrants came into already existed. They certainly didn't create it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Normandie Caroline Posted June 28, 2016 Author Share Posted June 28, 2016 I am very flattered that you think I could be a journalist. I'm not, but as I'm now unemployed and may no longer be able to move to France, I'm looking for work... so if Complete France want to hire me, I am available. Thanks ebaynut for drawing their attention to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Normandie Caroline Posted June 28, 2016 Author Share Posted June 28, 2016 Your perfectly caricatured Nigel Farage gleefully keeping back the spoils would no doubt inspire Gerald Scarfe! I saw an interview with him the other day and he said that he always draws Boris as a clown...What do your French or other nationals amongst your neighbours say? I've heard that many hope there will be a FrExit, but do they really? I would have thought alarm bells would be deafening by now, given the turmoil and confusion, let alone the potential disintegration of social order and the UK member countries that is now on-going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoneySuckleDreams Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Some of our neighbours are worried about the EU having more of an influence. Some of our neighbours are farmers so are more than willing to continue as-is My youngest son's French teacher has been telling him to get out of her country ever since he started in her class Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alittlebitfrench Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 [quote user="HoneySuckleDreams"]My youngest son's French teacher has been telling him to get out of her country ever since he started in her class[/quote]Get out in terms of being racist or get out to better yourself ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulT Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 For those wanting to remove the EU nationals from the UK could find big problems with the NHS as the NHS has drawn in nationals from many EU countries and, no, not as cleaners and kitchen staff, but as nurses and doctors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoneySuckleDreams Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 [quote user="alittlebitfrench"]Get out in terms of being racist or get out to better yourself ?[/quote] Racist - or rather Xenophobic as we are technically the same race She isn't a very nice person and shouldn't be anywhere kids never mind being a teacher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patf Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 That's awful, HD, but I'm not surprised. I've come across a few french people like that, but TG only a few Most are neutral, maybe they wonder why we came here, leaving family etc. But I don't think any actually love us - why should they? [:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cajal Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 [quote user="woolybanana"]Well done, Paul, you are right; a significant number of those I met drive top of the range Audis, Mercedes, Lexi (?), Range Rovers and Jags. Most have never met an immigrant in their lives except as someone serving them though they may have been happy to employ them as builders and fixers because they work cheap.I have also come across some kids who are furious with their parents for voting Brexit because their futures are *uked because they work in the City; some will lose their jobs, some will follow the company to places like Ireland. Ironically it is the old folk who will experience much more difficult to the beloved grandchildren.I wonder if property prices will drop; the good side of Brexit then because it might enable some younger folk to get on the property ladder instead of having to sell their souls to landlords?[/quote]Wow!! You must have a Phd. in prejudice. If you haven't I'd get straight on to it and submit this, along with some of the other stuff youv'e published, as your thesis/dissertation. Scary stuffregardscajal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew44 Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 How so, Cajal ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suein56 Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 [quote user="HoneySuckleDreams"] My youngest son's French teacher has been telling him to get out of her country ever since he started in her class [/quote]Goodness, how does your son feel about this bullying ? I do hope you have reported the teacher to the Directeur/Directrice for xenophobic behaviour.Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cajal Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 How so, Cajal ?Well, he's managed to demonize drivers of German, Indian and Japanese cars. What the hell is the significance of the car a person drives with how they conduct their lives?He goes on to state that most of these people have never met an immigrant in their lives. Quite a sweeping statement from someone who earlier said they were visiting the UK. Ah, a tourist. I always thought they were the people to seek out if you needed directions whils't on foreign soil not to issue analysis on the general populace way of life?It then appears that they have actually met immigrants and not only met them but they have gainfully employed them. But he then proceeds to demean these immigrants in the tone that they are just builders or fixers and therefore must be cheap labour.That's just the 1st paragraph and I really can't be arrssed justifying the rest. Work it out for yourself.regardscajal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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