The legal advice on May's deal

[NormanH]

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/761153/EU_Exit_-_Legal_position_on_the_Withdrawal_Agreement.pdf

The part on Social Security

Social

s

ecurity

c

oordination

28.

Title III of Part Two provides for the protection of rights relating to social security

coordination. It has a separate personal scope to Titles I and II but there is some

overlap between the Titles as those persons who have rights of residence, by virtue

of their falling within Article 10 above, will also be in full scope of Title III for as long

as they retain these residence rights

.

29.

Articles 30 and 31 provide that Regulat

ions 883/2004 and 987/2009 (‘the

Coordination Regulations’) will continue to apply fully to persons in scope of Article

30 of the Agreement (‘full scope of Title III’). The vast majority of people who fall

within the full scope of Title

I

II will do so beca

use they are either a UK national

subject to the legislation of a Member State at the end of the

i

mplementation period

,

10

EU Exit: Legal position on the Withdrawal Agreement

or because they are an EU citizen subject to UK legislation at the end of the

i

mplementation period

. Which legislation a person is subje

ct to is determined by

reference to the rules on applicable legislation in the Coordination Regulations,

which consider, for example whether a UK national is employed or self

-

employed in

a Member State. The Agreement however makes provision for the Coordin

ation

Regulations to continue to apply also to persons in a number of other specified

cross

-

border situations. For example, where a UK national is subject to UK

legislation at the end of the

i

mplementation period

but resident in a Member State.

Third count

ry nationals and stateless persons and refugees who are in one of the

specified situations at the end of the

i

mplementation period

involving both the UK

and a Member State are also in full scope of Title III. In relation to third country

nationals, the coo

rdination provisions in EU regulations 1408/71 and 574/72

apply

instead.

30.

Persons who are in scope of Article 30 of the Agreement for full social security

coordination purposes will continue to benefit from the coordination rules for as long

as they remain without interruption within the scope of that section. This will ensure,

for example, that workers (and their employer) will only pay into one social security

system at a time, and that they will continue to have the right to aggregate

contributions and periods of insured residence for the purposes of meeting different

states’

benefit entitlement conditions. This includes all contributions made both in

the UK and the EU before and after the

i

mplementation period

, and the rules will

protect the rights that flow from such contributions in accordance with the

Coordination Regulatio

ns (for example certain associated benefits and healthcare).

31.

The Agreement also provides for the protection of EU citizens who have previously

been subject to UK legislation and vice versa but are no longer in that situation

(Article 32(1)(a)). For exampl

e, where a UK national has previously paid social

security contributions in a Member State, those contributions and the rights flowing

from them such as the right to claim certain benefits and receive reciprocal

healthcare will be protected in accordance w

ith the Coordination Regulations. On

receipt of a relevant benefit based on past contributions, associated rights to

benefits under the regulations, including healthcare, will apply to those individuals

(Article 32(2)).

32.

The Agreement also provides for furt

her special situations. For example, a UK

national who is in a Member State for a holiday or for the duration of a course of

study at the end of the

i

mplementation period

, and who is entitled to a UK European

Health Insurance Card (EHIC), will be able to c

ontinue to benefit from that scheme

for as long as the stay in that state continues. The Agreement also protects the

rights of people visiting the UK or the EU for planned medical treatment, where

authorisation was requested before the end of the

i

mplement

ation period

, so they

are able to commence or complete their treatment.

33.

Article 36 provides that amendments to the social security regulations in the future

will apply to persons in scope of Title III. In relation to certain amendments, this is

the case u

nless the Joint Committee decides otherwise.

[nomoss]

Thank you Norman. It's a bit more readable in the PDF from your link, but I can't find anything referring specifically to pensioners or their health care.

[NormanH]

This is vague but might just touch on it:

where a UK national has previously paid social

security contributions in a Member State, those contributions and the rights flowing

from them such as the right to claim certain benefits and receive reciprocal

healthcare will be protected in accordance w

ith the Coordination Regulations. On

receipt of a relevant benefit based on past contributions, associated rights to

benefits under the regulations, including healthcare, will apply to those individuals

[richard51]

Ne pouvez-vous pas voir la situation dans son ensemble - c’est-à-dire puis-je vivre en France dans les pires circonstances, ou puis-je vivre au Royaume-Uni? Compte tenu de tous les facteurs, il s’agit d’une décision individuelle: voulez-vous vraiment vivre en France?

C'est un détail doux. C'est tout hypothétique.

Dick Smith l’aurait probablement dit plus franchement. Mikie encore mieux.

Voilà.

Isn't google translate wonderful.

[nomoss]

[quote user="NormanH"]

This is vague but might just touch on it:

where a UK national has previously paid social

security contributions in a Member State, those contributions and the rights flowing

from them such as the right to claim certain benefits and receive reciprocal

healthcare will be protected in accordance w

ith the Coordination Regulations. On

receipt of a relevant benefit based on past contributions, associated rights to

benefits under the regulations, including healthcare, will apply to those individuals

[/quote]

(Trying to ignore the village idiot)

Yes, but it's not very specific, especially regarding pensions (which I guess are benefits in current parlance) and their calculation under current rules, which aspect does not seem to be protected.

I'm afraid my old brain has difficulty retaining information presented in this format.

[NormanH]

Yes it even comes up with phrases I haven"t heard in that sense, such as un détail doux...

I would have used 'petit' or "miniscule', but my French is far from perfect...

[nomoss]

[quote user="NormanH"]

Yes it even comes up with phrases I haven"t heard in that sense, such as un détail doux...

I would have used 'petit' or "miniscule', but my French is far from perfect...

[/quote]

Maybe you should try Google Translate [;-)]

[richard51]

idiot de village ici.

Funny nasty comments on here given my recent post.(see using the language.)

For proper legal advice whilst in France go to an advocat/lawyer.

[woolybanana]

I am waiting for the Ladybird book of all this crup.