newbies

[Tag]

Am I the only one who finds the term 'newbie' offensive and rather patronising as it seems to imply degrees of membership, experience and expertise which are entirely irrelevant to the purposes of this forum?

At the next review of things perhaps it and other like terms could be dropped as could the perhaps too apparent presence of the moderators themselves who should be much further in the background.

Any thoughts welcome.

[Will]

I don't particularly like the term either but it seems to be one of those in common use in forums. It seems to be part of the forum software, and as this is shared with other forums linked to Archant publications on the same servers we have to settle for 'neutral' terms like that. At least it's better than another forum I belong to where we are called things like 'new laid egg' 'frequent layer' or 'eggspert'.

Looking at the second part of your message I should have kept quiet. However I don't think being a member of the admin team stops me having my own opinions or experiences or wanting to provide advice or explanations. How do you think we moderators ought to operate?

[Cat]

As a relative "newbie" myself, I didn't mind the term in the least.  I rather looked forward to gaining my "wings" and moving up through the ranks, from junior to member.  One day I might even want to achieve the lofty heights of Guru!

Personally I like to see the number of postings, member status etc, as (to me, rightly or wrongly) it implies a level of experience and knowledge.

As for the moderators, I like the fact that they are open and direct in their approach, even when posting without their moderator hats on.  I wouldn't want to think of them hiding in the corner and muttering between themselves

[Tag]

OK, I'll have to live with the crassness of the designers of these things.

As to the second point, I dont think that Administrators should identify themselves as such unless performing that function. But given what has been said in Will's message I suspect the system would not be able to do this.

On the old site, the administrator only appeared when there was something official to be transacted.

It feels a bit like Flashman's prefects partrolling the corridors to me.

 

[Tag]

In fact there could be the material for a Hollywood blockbuster here, especially with Bush's spies now having eyes everywhere. Or am I already out of date?

[Tourangelle]

but there aren't that many moderators, (I can count 5??), so even if they didn't identify themselves as such I would personally know who they are if they used the same log in. Do you mean they should assume new identities when they post from a personal perspective?

[Tag]

Yes, I think they should keep the two roles and even perhaps names separate. It would be quite easy to have their moderator names etc at some fixed point at the beginning of the site.

Pedantic perhaps, but as another post says, it implies a broad degree of expertise and knowledge which they may or may not have and could even have an influence on posters and posts beyond discouraging the undesirable element.

Though I think they do a superb job managing the site and sholud be heartily thanked for that.

[Ex Forum Admin]

Yes, there are 5.

I think it is better that they are identifiable rather than having a second login. That would confuse.

[a.foreman]

How does one become a  Forum Administrator   ?

[Ex Forum Admin]

I work for the magazine. The moderators are volunteers. There was a time about a year ago when the forum was going to close down. Moderators were sought to help manage it.

[Tag]

Interesting: nine posts of which two by administrators. The effect I suspect will be to discourage others from contributing to the debate. In fact given the level of the discussion there is no reason for any administrator per se to have intervened, though they might have done so in their private capacity. The effect of the Living France cachet may be to give an official stamp to the post and therefore imply no further discussion possible.

I rest my case.

[Ex Forum Admin]

Sorry you feel that, I answer posts within this section as I manage the site.

[SaligoBay]

<<Am I the only one who finds the term 'newbie' offensive and rather patronising as it seems to imply degrees of membership, experience and expertise which are entirely irrelevant to the purposes of this forum?>>

Nope.  It's general Internet slang, it's not just aimed at new LFers.

Newbie

(New beginner) Internet slang for someone who hasn't been using computers or the internet long.

from Jon Storm's computer glossary http://www.jonstorm.com/glossary/glossmr.htm

[amp]

So how do you move from junior to member etc etc.?

[Quillan]

As one of the volunteers who help moderate the forum I feel I should point out that we were all members of the forum long before we became moderators. On the old forum software there were moderators (us) and administrators (magazine staff), it would seem that the new(ish) forum software does not allow this distinction hence we have now become Administrators. We all debated whether we should have two logins but we all felt that as long standing members we had no problem with people knowing that we had become moderators. Ok people took they micky when we started but that was in a fun way.

Most of our moderating is self explanatory but where it is not we often precede our comments with Moderators Hat ON just to indicate we have now slipped in to the moderators role. The rest of the time we post on the forum in the same manner as any other member. I think that most people would agree that us posting in a thread does not stop any further posts or the hread from developing further.

To be honest I can't see a problem with the newbie to guru thing because I would never take anything from this forum and act on it for any life changing activity without checking elswhere first. People give advice but in the cases of where financial or legal advice is required forum members are always quick to point out that you should seek profesional help and not rely on the forum.

By the way, being a Administrator means you don't get any rating other than God

[Tag]

It is still to be hoped that the LF site might rise above such terms as 'newbie'. I dont even see the point of it. Now if it was drivers thats another matter.

[Quillan]

[quote]It is still to be hoped that the LF site might rise above such terms as 'newbie'. I dont even see the point of it. Now if it was drivers thats another matter.[/quote]

Cor see that, posting number 10 and your a Junior Member, suits you sir.

Keep posting.

[0BRIAN WOODHEADI,m here in franceddMMyyyy0Falseen-USI,m here in franceTrue]

Tag,stop moaning and go and start your own forum if you do not like the "tag" forum newbie instead or trying to hijack this forum.

 

[Tresco]

This is just my view.

I'm not keen at all on the 'titles' given to people based on their number of posts. The titles are irelevant and could become nonsensical.

But, I like the way that the moderators say 'moderators hat on', or somesuch thing when they feel they have to step in. I don't know if it's possible for a moderator 'signal' to come up rather than them have to do this, because I see them as being normal members of the forum apart from the comparatively rare times when they have to step in/warn.

That's not to undermine the fact that they do what they do, unpaid, and sometimes in the middle of the night, don'tcha, Snoozy? (Quillan).

tresco

[Quillan]

That's not to undermine the fact that they do what they do, unpaid, and sometimes in the middle of the night, don'tcha, Snoozy? (Quillan).

Unlike the wife who says she has a headache (even thought I left two bottles of asprin her side of the bed) I tell her "I just rememberd something on the forum.............". I really must get a life, oh yes I have one here in France.

[Tag]

I dont not see why I should be attacked personally by two members who seem to have missed the point which is a serious one and which in no way attacks the role of the administrators.

The debate is a worthwhile one surely. I have gravitated over time from the old site which was a little "Wild West" at times admittedly so hardly fall into any of the rather silly categories which I still maintain are insulting though we seem to be stuck with them.

In addition the role and presence of the administrators is surely worth discussing from time to time.

[Tag]

Even newbies or now, according to some sarkie puss, juniors, can set hares running. Now at least no one is going to hunt them with dogs.

[Quillan]

[quote]Even newbies or now, according to some sarkie puss, juniors, can set hares running. Now at least no one is going to hunt them with dogs.[/quote]

To be honest, and serious for a moment, it's probably because the whole issue was debated at incredible length many months back when the software was installed. The outcome of which is quite simple. This is the standard package that Archant (thats the publishing house that owns LF) for their internet forum software. Neither us or LF had any real input in this decission and basically thats what we have to work with but then it's better than nothing at all. To be honest if some of us had not stepped in to help moderate (although we are seen as Administrators our powers are limited to moderating the forum like we did in the old version) the forum may well have been closed down which I personally feel would have been a great lose of a excellent source of information to those wanting to move to France and those that have made the plunge.

I am sorry if you feel slighted by some of the comments but I feel people have reacted the way they have because they remember when this subject was first bought up and the heated and very long debate that followed (many of us might prefer to forget it) and are sick to death of the subject or/and have moved on. Unfortunatly you were probably not to have known this and accidently took the lid of a can of worms that as I said is best forgotten.

I don't think I really have any more to say on the subject, I'm sorry this is how it is and it does not matter how much we debate it and there will be no changes not now, not ever.

[SaligoBay]

[quote]I dont not see why I should be attacked personally by two members who seem to have missed the point which is a serious one and which in no way attacks the role of the administrators. The debate is a...[/quote]

<<categories which I still maintain are insulting>>

I still think being called a "newbie" by a piece of computer code ranks VERY low on the grand scale of insults!  

Now why don't you tell us about the genocidal massacres that happened in the Vendée a couple of years ago, that sounds MUCH more worthwhile and interesting?

  

 

[Swissbarry]

The fact that something is inevitable and unavoidable (e.g. old age, the weather, John Prescott, the term "Newbie") does not mean that we cannot or should not complain about it if we don't like it.  So I think Taq had every right to point out his distaste for the term.  I happen to agree with him that the distinctions between different grades of membership are irrelevant and pointless (a newcomer might have more and better things to say than a veteran), and at the same time I can see the administrators'/moderators' position in that they are only following orders.

Incidentally, why is a euphemism necessary?  There is nothing shameful in being a censor, and that is what these administrators/moderators really are.