Signing the compromis de vente.

[Bobdude]

The purchasers of our property have signed the compromis and paid their deposit to our Notaire. We have an appointment to sign the compromis on Wednesday. My question is: Are we legally bound to sell the property to them at the PRICE ON THE COMPROMIS (without going into to too many details!) or could we refuse to sign the contracts when it comes to the actual completion day? And if so, would there be any consequences?

Sorry if this sounds a bit strange, but you will probably guess what I am getting at.

Linda

[Alexis]

You must have agreed to this price when the Notaire offered their bid.

If you have now changed your mind you should say so now and refuse to sign the compromis.  It used to be 10% of the total price to be paid by the one who backed out at completion but this might have changed.

Quite frankly if you wait until the actual day of completion, I can't imagine the feelings of the poor purchasers who have probably sold their house, moved their furniture and possibly changed school for the children. 

You ought to be ashamed of yourselves to even think of letting people down like that.

[Will]

You seem to be implying that there could be something dodgy going on. There are reasons, some valid, some less so, why the price on the documentation may not match up exactly with what you thought you would be getting, so without knowing the exact circumstances it would be difficult to advise you.

Legally, if you haven't yet signed a compromis de vente you are able to pull out - but you could in effect be breaking a verbal contract and won't exactly win any friends, among buyers, lawyers or agents, so please do think carefully before withdrawing.

[Bobdude]

Someone always has to get hold of the wrong end of the stick. I didn't say we didn't WANT to sell as agreed. We just want to make sure we get the agreed amount (can't go into financial details on an open forum!) If we haven't got the agreed amount before we go into the Notaires office on completion day we obviously won't sign. We have actually bent over backwards to fall in with the purchasers wishes - at no advantage to ourselves. Hope that makes it a bit clearer.

[Alexis]

You get the amount agreed.  How could they change it?  If the compromis states x euro's, that is what you get.  It is the purchaser who pays the Notaire's and agency fees, if using one.

Don't tell me that the vendor now has to pay something to the agents?    AAAAAAAAAAAAARRRgh!

[Boiling a frog]

All a bit mysterious this,if you sign a compris de vente then that is the price you are agreeing to sell at .If you are receiving money from the buyer which is not declared to the notaire beware As far as the notaire is concerned the price on the compris is the price you are paying and it is the notaire who will ensure that that money is in his account before the final act is signed.If you have come to some private agreement with the buyer there is nothing to stop them failing to pay that other amount paying the amount on the compris and then insisting that you sign or demanding the 10% for failing to sign It is also illegal and if you are caught hefty penalties However I may have got the wrong end of the stick

[Will]

I think, given the nature of the question, the way it was interpreted is understandable.

As BAF says, if you sign the compromis de vente then the price, nett vendeur, on the compromis is the price you have agreed to sell at.

The house may have been advertised at a higher price, and the buyer may have made an offer based on that higher price, but in many cases the advertised selling price is inclusive of agency and/or notaire fees, so the nett vendeur figure is going to be less. You should have been told by the notaire or agent when the buyer's offer was communicated to you what the nett vendeur figure will be, though some people do get confused between this and FAI (frais agence inclus) or all-inclusive selling prices.

If the price you see on the final acte de vente is different from the nett vendeur figure agreed on the compromis de vente then you must take that up with the notaire and selling agent, if any. There is probably a sensible explanation - it is quite common, and legal, for example, for a certain amount of fixtures and fittings to be treated separately from the bricks and mortar in order to save on taxes and fees. But you will still get the agreed amount at the end of the day though you will probably not get a breakdown of costs etc until some time after the sale has completed.

If you are liable to plus value (capital gains tax) on the sale then the notaire will retain this and you will receive the nett vendeur figure, less tax.

I note that you want to sell, but if, for whatever reason, you don't agree about the final price and you refuse to complete the sale after signing the compromis then you may be held to be in breach of contract and liable to pay compensation - commonly 10% of the agreed price, though this can vary.

You also refer to getting the agreed amount before completion day - this is most unusual. The buyer will send the money to reach the notaire's account on or before the completion day, but the sale has to be processed and go through the official accounts before you get the proceeds. The money can, if agreed in advance, sometimes be arranged to be available to you on the day of signing, but more usually a short time afterwards - from the day after to several weeks later, depending on how efficient the notaire is. In any case, I have never heard of anybody getting the money before signing.

I hope this helps to clarify the position for you, there are probably several more good reasons why you might not be getting what you expected but not being a notaire or estate agent myself I can't be sure.

[Bobdude]

Thank you for your input. BAF has answered my query more or less. It's all very worrying - especially when you are keen to sell and want to go along with the purchaser's requests.

Linda

[Will]

In that case then you would be well advised to not go ahead with the sale on that basis - it is indeed illegal. If the buyer wants the property they should be prepared to purchase it on an official basis.

The buyer probably has a good (though not necessarily legal) reason for wanting to bypass the system, but it is usually sellers who benefit from cash under the table, particularly if they are liable to capital gains tax. There was, reputedly, a spate of such transactions when lots of French people wanted to convert their stash of francs under the mattress into something tangible before the euro replaced them.

Some notaires turn a blind eye, but others can be extra vigilant especially in the case of sales by non-French as plenty of foreigners are only too ready to try and pull a fast one.

[Boiling a frog]

Now it has been clarified somewhat

If you have made a private arrangement regarding house furnishings and suchlike then that is normal practice However if they fail to pay for the furnishings before the sale I would think that the notaire would not be sympathetic to your plight after all you still have the furnishings

If as I suspect the buyers want to give you  part cash for the purchase of the house  theirby reducing the notaire fees for them then again I say beware.How do you explain to the notaire that you will not sign the act because the other party has not given you cash without it being obvious to the notaire that you have acted illegally.

[Bobdude]

Thank you both very much indeed.