Road Safety

[Cat]

A couple of years ago, I remember being struck by the number of black silhouettes on the road-side indicating fatal road accident victims.

I haven't seen any of these silhouettes for a while, or at least not in my neck of the woods, but another recent fatal accident here in my village prompted me to do a bit of research.

I was shocked, although perhaps not entirely surprised, to discover (according to the most recently available data from the European Commission for Transport) that twice as many people in France are killed as a result of road accidents than in the UK.

Although the actual number of road accidents in the UK is twice that of those in France (as far as can be determined, due to different reporting methods) the likelihood of surving a road accident in France is far lower than in the UK. 

I'm no statistician, and I know that figures can can viewed, and conclusions drawn, in many different ways, but I wonder how many of these deaths could have been avoided by the use of seat-belts.  Is it just me, or have others noticed a distinctly cavalier attitude to the use of these by french drivers and passengers?

Interestingly, pedestrians are safer here than in the UK, but sadly, not cyclists.

Anyone interested in viewing the underlying figures might be interested in taking a look at the site http://europa.eu.int/comm/transport/care/statistics/index_en.htm

[Teamedup]

I mentioned these some time back and it was suggested that the black figures must have been moved to my area now. Have an effect, yes probably for a day and well, already they have been hit by passing traffic, as I 've been told happens elsewhere,

[zeb]

We have the black figures here in the Charente, mostly in pairs and threesomes, and usually holding bunches of flowers... But this is on the main RN road from Portugal and Spain which is heaving with TGVs 24/6 (our French neighbours only venture out on Sundays). OOOOOOops we are going along there tonight to celebrate Valentine's night (and partner's birthday) at Les Routiers (his choice, not mine!!)

I wear my seatbelt at all times now after being fined 90euros (mechanism wasn't working - honestly) for non-compliance. Perhaps there aren't that many vigilant flics in your neck of the woods Cathy?

 

[Cat]

You're absolutley right zeb, not too many flics (vigilant or otherwise) here in the sticks.

In fact, the locals here all know the favoured areas for random checks, and the only time I see some of my french friends putting on a seat belt is when they spot a flic in the distance!

[Patf]

Another reason for the higher number of fatalities in France is that until recently people were more likely to exceed the speed limit here than in UK. Obviously accidents at speed are more destructive. They are claiming that the increase in numbers of speed cameras is resulting in fewer deaths on the roads.Pat.

[Iceni]

In our corner of the Lot the black figures (or blue handicap signes to warn you that if you are unlucky you may not die...) will be out in time for the holidays and this is on the back roads.

If you realise that the French have twice to three times as many miles of roads as the UK and that you can travel far faster as there are fewer traffic jams I am not surprised that more peoples are killed. You are not comparing like with like. Find another country with the same length of roads and the same number of cars/drivers and population and then you have a true comparison.

Since being in France we have only seen 2 accidents - on the same day and caused by cars skidding on black ice. Never seen anything worse - now if you want me to start on the M25, M12, A12 etc etc - but again I am not comparing like with like.

[Baz]

Icena,

I am amazed and pleased that you have only seen 2 accidents since being in France. The number that I have seen both on Autoroutes and ordinary roads in France over the last 15 years are at an unacceptable level.The worst being on an autoroute where I was held up over 3 hours outside Paris which involved a minibus containing 9 people all seriously injured or killed with no other vehicles involved. It was bad enough to be reported on the BBC evening news. Just travel between Lyons and Montpellier on a average day and listen to Autoroute radio and you will either witness or hear the number of accidents. Using the M25,M12 and A12 on a regular basis I agree there are accidents but certainly the UK motorways suffer less fatalities and accidents than the Autoroutes even though they carry far more traffic per mile.

I hope the police action on the French roads over the last 2 years is beginning to curb the accidents, as the general driving standard and practices are bordering sometimes on suicidal.

Baz

[Richard-R]

The summer months and late October seem to be very bad here. Often seems to be very over loaded old Merc's on the Autoroute that are going to fast and are unstable on the trip from/ to North Africa. I always marvel at the amount of stuff you can parcel tape to the roof of a 80's diesel Merc and the sheer number of people you can shove inside. Brings back fond memories of shared taxi's in the Middle East.

[Teejay]

[quote]Icena, I am amazed and pleased that you have only seen 2 accidents since being in France. The number that I have seen both on Autoroutes and ordinary roads in France over the last 15 years are at an ...[/quote]

We have lived in France for eighteen months and during that time have seen two fatalities.  The first was someone on a motor bike, the second a cyclist killed not far from Brive.  In both instances it was difficult to ascertain the cause and whether anyone else was involved and neither were on major roads. 

 

[Sprogster]

Iceni,

Your logic is flawed!

Surely, if French roads are less congested than the UK, then the French accident rate should be better not worse.

Actually, the French fatality rate for car accidents, is even worse then it seems, because of the way fatalities who die from their injuries after the accident are or are not included.

In the UK, like most other European countries, anyone who dies from injuries specifically related to a car crash are included in the fatality statistics, if they die within a year of the accident. In France they are only included if they died within a month.

France brought itself into line by taking into account related deaths within 12 months, only from the beginning of this year.

It is reported that this is partly behind the crackdown on speeding and drink driving in France. The later being a major contributory factor.

No need to make excuses for this one, as the French government itself states that the French car fatality rate is shameful and totally unacceptable.

[letrangere]

I read an article somewhere that said that the authorities in certain parts of the country were taking an axe to the beautiful tree lined roads as they were convinced it was the trees that were responsible for so many accidents.  One can only assume their "logic" was, if you have no trees, you have nothing for the speeding and/or drunk idiots to wrap themselves around!  I have no sympathy for dangerous drivers but thought it was very sad about the poor trees. 

I've said before that I'm astonished more Brits don't comment on the appalling driving in France.  Heck, I'm used to driving in the Middle East but even I find it bad.

Margaret

[SaligoBay]

There have also been no comments on the cutting-down of trees in France, yet a local authority in the UK only has to cut down one spreading chestnut tree, and it's a nationwide scandal.

I don't particularly like driving along those avenues of trees, but that's because not long after we arrived, someone told us that they are recognised killers.   MUCH more dangerous to drive into one of these trees than into a brick wall, apparently, because the brick wall will collapse, but the tree won't give an inch.  As one who is very aware of what a car can do to you, this stuck in my mind!

[GRT17]

[quote]I read an article somewhere that said that the authorities in certain parts of the country were taking an axe to the beautiful tree lined roads as they were convinced it was the trees that were respon...[/quote]

There was a radio 4 program last year (maybe the year before) which reported on these "killer" trees in parts of France. There were local protests and guess what, the majority of the protesters were British who live in these regions.

Gill

[Patmobile]

The French government could make a huge contribution to road safety by abolishing the "Priorite a droite" system, which is, anyway, applied so inconsistently, and is totally at odds with safe motoring at modern speeds.

The other thing they could do is ensure that driver training places much more emphasis on maintaining a 2 second gap between your vehicle and the one in front. It's such a simple lesson to teach.

It's my opinion the French taste for underpowered diesel cars is one of the causes of the tailgating you see everywhere here. They can't accelerate rapidly to overtake, so they climb all over your bumper trying to shorten the distance they are going to have to travel to get past.

I usually slow down to make it easy for the worst offenders, but, just occasionally, I "blow them away" with a quick squirt on the gas pedal to re-establish a safe distance. Unfortunately the persistent morons are back on the bumper again, a mile or so later.

In general though, I find driving is still a pleasure here; something you can't say about anywhere in UK south of the Humber

Patrick

[Cat]

It just seems that, back in the UK, we are so used to being reminded of safety issues (the graphic pre-Christmas anti drink driving TV ads, wear something white at night, think once, think twice, think bike... even the green cross code) that perhaps we have a greater awareness.

It's not just road safety, things like smoke alarms too, every time I burn the toast (sadly an almost daily occurrence) my french fella rolls his eyes and complains that they are the invention of the devil.

Don't get me wrong, I love it here, it's just that maybe the very things we so like about France (the slightly old-fashioned, easy going way of life, the devil-may-care attitude, the reluctance to be told what to do by the state) are the the flip-side of the same coin.

I read somewhere that the secret to reducing road accidents was not to make cars safer, but to do away with air-bags, seat belts, side impact bars and the like, and to put a bl**dy great metal spike on the steering column, facing the driver!  Not something I agree with, but it does make you think...

[Iceni]

"Surely, if French roads are less congested than the UK, then the French accident rate should be better not worse."

Di's comment may be correct in that there are possibly fewer accidents, this may be supported by our having seen the aftermath of so few - just that more people die per incident.

BTW on the A20 yesterday 2 cars had kissed each other or the metal barriers.

John

not 

[maude]

The safety would be improved immensley by simple actions-1)stop  the French from tailgateing.Especially when it is safe to overtake if desired.Stop the French from then overtaking on blindhills,junctions and villages,after tailgateing for miles.

   2) install either cats eyes or even the occasional centre white line.

    3) Try and teach the French to stay on their side of the road.

 Other than these it would be much safer and even more pleasurable.      Maude

[Iceni]

"Try and teach the French to stay on their side of the road."

But these are French roads so both sides are theirs anyway.

John

not

 

[Ormx]

Unfortunately we were in an accident only 2 weeks after arriving in France and I still can't believe how it happened. Lovely day. Long straight road. Speed not excessive. Except I slowed to wait to overtake a cyclist and the motorist behind didn't see me slowing down (very gradually) and went straight into us, and we into the cyclist. Never so shocked as I'd never been in an accident before. Nobody hurt badly, though I did have a bit of a fright being 6 months pregnant. Since then I'm very critical of driving and see unnecessary risks everywhere. Why oh why can't they keep their distance?

[Dave&Olive]

It`s easy just wear an england rugby shirt, they will just pass you without you knowing it

      

                     Dave

[Caroline 34]

A lighter look at driving in France - thanks to the riviera reporter website:

Basic Rules For Driving In France

1. Turn signals will give away your next move. A real French driver never uses them.

2. Under no circumstances should you leave a safe distance between you and the car in front of you, or the space will be filled in by somebody else, putting you in an even more dangerous situation.

3. The faster you drive through a red light, the smaller the chance you have of getting hit.

4. Never, ever come to a complete stop at a stop sign. No one expects it and it will inevitably result in you being rear ended. If you want your insurance company to pay for a new rear bumper, come to a complete stop at all stop signs.

5. A right lane construction closure is just a game to see how many people can cut in line by passing you on the right as you sit in the left lane waiting for the same jerks to squeeze their way back in before hitting the orange cones.

6. Braking is to be done as hard and late as possible to ensure that your ABS kicks in, giving a nice, relaxing foot massage as the brake pedal pulsates. For those of you without ABS, it's a chance to stretch your legs.

7. Never pass on the left when you can pass on the right. It's a good way to scare people entering the autoroute.

8. Speed limits are arbitrary figures, given only as suggestions and are apparently not enforceable in France, except where the police have placed "dummy" cameras.

9. Just because you're in the left lane and have no room to speed up or move over doesn't mean that a French driver flashing his high beams behind you doesn't think he can go faster in your spot.

10. Please remember that there is no such thing as a shortcut during rush-hour traffic in Nice. This does not mean that the moron behind you doesn't want you to move faster.

11. Always slow down and gape when you see an accident or even someone changing a tire.

12. Learn to swerve abruptly. France is the home of high-speed slalom driving thanks to the Public Works Department, which puts potholes in key locations to test drivers' reflexes and keep them on their toes.

13. Never take a green light at face value. Always look right and left before proceeding. See 3 and 4 above.

14. Remember that the goal of every French driver is to get there first, by whatever means necessary.

15. Real French women drivers can apply eye makeup at 110 kilometres per hour in bumper-to-bumper traffic.

16. Real French men drivers can use their portable phones, argue with the back seat passenger and reprimand the driver next to him in sign language, at 110 kilometres per hour or in bumper-to-bumper traffic.

Hope you enjoyed that - scary amount of truth in them!!! - and safe driving!

Caroline

[Teamedup]

That was spot on. They forgot the bit about roundabouts though. When going left, get into the right hand land and indicate right and then go all the way round blowing your horn at the odd motorist who is on the inside lane, indicating properly and is trying to get off the roundabout.

[letrangere]

To add to Caroline's excellent post, don't French drivers also resort to sneaking down the hard shoulder when there are long tailbacks on autoroutes?  It's a nasty habit I've acquired in recent years and despite having been booked for it on the M25 pulling out of Heathrow have got away with in Paris and Toulouse. 

Re killer trees, can now fully understand where French authorities are coming from.  Outside my office this afternoon a chap drove into and completely flattened a lamp post.  Car was a write off, he climbed out shaken but unscathed.  Crossed my mind that a tree wouldn't have been quite so accommodating.

Margaret   

[Cheronnac]

There are a lot of black figures really close together on the road from La Rochefoucauld to Angouleme in the Charente .

On the whole the motorways that we use seem to be pretty good - we haven't seen many accidents however once you approach Paris on the Peripherique the madness seems to take hold of the locals and lane hopping becomes a national obsession!!!

[Caroline 34]

Thanks TU and Margaret, for your positive comments on my posting

For a forum newbie like myself its a great encouragement!! 

 .... and for those like me who avidly read the forum but feel unsure of actually posting - give it a go.  It doesnt hurt!  And even can make you feel better!

Thanks again