Will you blend in eventually?

[Ormx]

A discussion on being "foreign" in France got me thinking about people moving here and hoping to integrate. Language, obviously, is vital. Finding like-minded people who become friends. Getting involved in local community etc. etc. etc.

But do you think you will eventually be regarded as a local, or will your children? Or will you forever be the *insert nationality here* that moved here back in nineteen hundred and....?

I believe I will always be the Irish woman who moved here and think my children will probably feel French in time. Having said that I do read the local papers, have a good level of French and, unlike previous experiences abroad, am not trying too hard this time!!!

Just wondering about your thoughts on this?

 

 

[Mpprh]

Hi

two examples :

1) I was living in Sweden and got an email saying Xmas turkeys to order for Xmas, and was told "yes it's the English people who live in XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX". Turned out it was Swedish wife and English husband who had been in Sweden for 35 years.

2)In the family, a mother & father were very upset that their only daughter was living with a Pole. In fact he was born in France of parents who arrived in France c1947.

Don't expect to ever be considered a local in your lifetime ?

Peter

  

 

 

[Catalpa]

Will I blend in eventually?

Only if I cut my (blonde-ish) hair short and spiky and put a red dye through it.

(Manche, 50)

[Richard-R]

I'm making a start. I have now stopped using the morrors on my car when driving and stop without warning in the muddle of towns and villages to chat to people from the midle of the road. I have yet to start wearing tight speedo type swimming trunks on all occasions ( even shopping) so still have some way to go.

[Coco]

[quote]Will I blend in eventually?Only if I cut my (blonde-ish) hair short and spiky and put a red dye through it. (Manche, 50)[/quote]

Don't forget the floral wrap-round pinny and wellies Carol.  Oh, and if you've got a bit of facial hair, that would help greatly

[opas]

Catalpha, that was my thought when I read the post! each time I visit the hairdresser she asks if I would like it short and perhaps to think about a colour for next time She even gave me 3 credits on one advantage card when I took the girls for a cut....to get me nearer my `free offer` Mrs O

[Tresco]

Don't forget the floral wrap-round pinny and wellies

I'm half way there, I rarely wear anything other than wellies, the rest of the time it's slippers, also essential for blending in.

Here the 'fashion' is for a layered version of pinny wearing, one with sleeves under one without. Always floral! I am holding out against the pinnys though.

For me the real key would be to lop 6 inches off my leg length. For him it would be more like 12 inches. We both stand out a mile.

 

tresco

[Tresco]

Apologies for that to Orymx, who asked a serious question.

I grew up in Sheffield, and then lived in Manchester for 20 years, both multi cultural cities, so I had plenty of opportunities to mix with people who had settled in, but not been born in England.

Overall I would say that the first generation will always think of themselves as being their original nationality, although I have met exceptions to this, eg my neighbout from Belarussia (sp?) who came to England after the WW2. He used to proudly tell me, with a very strong accent, that he was English now. His wife was Italian, and she remained Italian, proudly.

The second generation (born in the country) tend to see themselves as of that Nationality, but some will say 'i'm half English, half Asian, or half English, half Irish'. The adult children of the couple mentioned above all gave differing descriptions, depending on which parents culture they identified with most, mainly the Italian side, as the father had cut all links with his birthplace and family. In my family, some of use say English, some say (and feel) half English half Irish.

Language, obviously, is vital.

Yes, but the first generation immigrant will only rarely lose their accent, which makes them identifiable as an incomer as soon as they open their mouths!  Then again, for people who are not white, their colour will always be the first impression, and many people still make assumtions based on that, despite good language and accent. For instance my elderly mum recently asked my sons mate where he was from. When he said (area of Sheffield) she was a bit taken aback - she meant something else entirely, but personally I thought the broad Yorkshire accent should have given her a clue

But do you think you will eventually be regarded as a local

Nope! But I get the impression that children are a big help in this respect generally. I havn't got any here, so I will have to struggle away without that benefit to integation.

Also I have plenty of years left to try!

tresco

 

[GRT17]

Tresco

I can sympathise with the leg length problems, the locals do seem to be on the short side in the Charente Maritime, in our village I put that down to all the intermarriage !

 

Now back to the original posting, you may well blend in and integrate but you'll never be French (unless you officially change your nationality).

 

Gill

[Ormx]

I could take French nationality but that wouldn't make me French either.

Interesting Tresco on the generations and how the differ.

I think I'm happy to say I never will be French and totally integrated, and am happy to keep my identity.

However, many moons ago, while studying languages it was another story. I desperately wanted to be mistaken for French (in France) and Austrian (in Austria) and I was sometimes ....  usually, though, in a drunken state, to another drunk! I did believe I had to adopt French ways, the shrug, the pout, the walk, the slippers.... and thought it was part of speaking the language. Then, I went to Japan, and tried to speak Japanese, but could not for the life of me pull off the bowing and the dropped eyes in conversation and the play-shyness when speaking to a male colleague, so I gave up trying.

Just wondering when I hear of people trying to "integrate" her what they mean? Yes it probably does mean wearing the flowery apron...

 

[zeb]

Neighbours arrived here in rural Charente from Amiens 25 years ago and are still considered outsiders so fat chance we have of being accepted!!!

Tresco - I love Manchester. Went on Gay Pride march there in 88 and had a job dragging myself away. The a few years later met my man in the coffee bar under the library there. Oh happy days!!!!

[Tresco]

Oh it's getting even more interesting now, for me anyway

Ormx said

tried to speak Japanese, but could not for the life of me pull off the bowing and the dropped eyes in conversation and the play-shyness when speaking to a male colleague, so I gave up trying.

I'm absolutely ceratin we can all relate to this, but how many of us have as much sympathy for first generation immigrants to England from India or Pakistan? How often I have heard people saying things like 'why can't they just adapt to/adopt out culture, dress like us' etc etc.

I wonder sometimes if word will go out, 'she drinks tea with milk in it' or, 'she just wears old clothes in the garden - no pinny!!!!!'. More significantly, 'Her husband does the cooking' .....word is out, and it is BIG news. Never mind what I do, shoving wheelbarrow full of concrete while he snips the heads off daisies with nail scissors

I think I underestimated the cultural differences between England, at it's nearest point, 21 miles from France. They may not be as stark as the ones Ormx pointed out, but they are there anyway.

Zeb, I had a great couple of nights in Manchester recently. The days were even better. The new estate that replaced the formrly infamous 'crescents' at Hulme is fantastic. Just built when I left, it is really getting a proper feel of community, completely mixed, racially, class wise, and in every other way. I think the planners may have got it right this time, but long before, Manchester was the first place I ever heard anyone say 'thanks' to the bus drivers when they got off, with a 'cheerio' or take 'care luv'  back. Also, as you indicate, Manchester was and is, second only to London in terms of gay culture, did you ever go clubbing there?  I was talking to my very straight, religious brother in law last week. Their youngest is desperate to go to college in Manchester, second choice Leeds. my brother in law thinks it's to do with the course on offer. After speaking to my niece I had to bite my lip not to reveal all

tresco

[GRT17]

[quote]I could take French nationality but that wouldn't make me French either. Interesting Tresco on the generations and how the differ. I think I'm happy to say I never will be French and totally integr...[/quote]

"I think I'm happy to say I never will be French and totally integrated, and am happy to keep my identity. "

absolutely and quite right too, you should never be ashamed of, or lose sight of your roots.

 

Gill

[letrangere]

It's a world apart in the country but how about if you lived in Paris?  Sorting out some books last week to make space on a shelf, I came across a title that friends gave me before I moved to Paris, "How to dress like a French woman".  It wasn't all Princess Caroline and Chanel style, there were some very useful tips for those of us with more dash than cash, including a wonderful section on how to tie Hermes scarves 4000 ways and sling cashmere cardies round our shoulders.  M  

[SaligoBay]

how to tie Hermes scarves 4000 ways

The long thin nylony scarf is the other uniform, for those that don't wear pinnies!   Be as scruffy as you want, polyester Aran jumper or anything, the scarf is the sign that in spite of everything you are really stylish and smart. 

As I can't stand having anything round my neck, no, it looks like I won't ever blend in!   

[Catalpa]

I saw one of these scarves yesterday - worn sans pinnie - it was a sort of open fishnet fabric, bright fluorescent lime green at one end graduating (somehow) to fuschia pink the other end. It was... remarkable.

Re the more serious side to this topic which I've ignored so far, I don't kid myself that I'll ever seem French to the French. And I don't think I want to be because I don't want to discard the results of my life and style of the last XX years. My sense of identity comes from that. But what I would hope is that in time, to other non-French people, I won't stick out like a sore thumb as obviously *not French*. If you see what I mean.

And if I want to achieve that, I'd better go on a diet