Is this the greatest opportunity of my life or not?

[Selina99]

My partner of 12 months owns two little properties in Brittany which he intends to renovate, but due to circumstances he's owned them for nearly 2 years and hasn't been able to get out to start the work. We live in the UK and he has had complications here selling a property and things.

Anyway. He wants to spend the rest of his life with me and I with him. He has asked me to move to Brittany with him and help him with the renovations.

It will mean selling my house and giving up a well paid job. I don't want to rent my house out, I am nervous that there will not be enough rent payments to cover the mortgage, plus all the problems that go with renting your house to tenants...

I can barely speak any French and I wonder how on earth I would be able to get a job. My partner tells me that helping him renovate and finally sell the properties will be my job and he will put me on the deeds of the houses to make sure I feel secure.

Its not that. I think he has a very romantic view of living in France, and I am a bit of a cynic. Part of me would love to sell up, pay my car off and bank the equity and go for it, the other part of me says I'm mad and how could I ever dream of giving up my security.

I am 44 and have no family. Has anyone here had the same fears I have and overcome them and is happy now, or am I heading for disaster?

[Tourangelle]

You ask some very sensible questions. France is lovely, but if you don't speak the language you will be isolated. Can I ask what job you do at the moment? I came here with no job, but speaking French and I still found it hard. I am sure you will get lots of advice here!

[Selina99]

Thank you Tourangelle. I am a sales rep. My partner says to me that it is not imperetive that I find work, as I will be helping him to renovate the houses and I will have equity from my own property to tide me over until the first property is ready to sell, and he is qualified in all kinds of trade and is the type of man to pick up work anywhere.

As for feeling isolated because I don't speak the language, yes that worries me. I have basic 'o'level French and on my trip recently I found it very stimulating to be able to pick up phrases and struggle along with bits of conversation. People say I would 'pick it up' - I'm not so confident about that statement but I'm not afraid of working at it to become more proficient.

I am just worried because my partner is a very optimistic and enthusiastic man and makes everything sound really easy. The bit about doing the houses up and selling them for example. What's the housing market like in Brittany? Are people looking for little cottages? I don't think the idea is to buy them and rent them out for holiday properties, so will he be able to sell them once they're ready?

This forum looks like the place that I'll get my answers. Thank you for any contributions.

 

Selina.

[Deby]

Depends what you want out of life itself and where you wish to go.  France for some is great and I know lots of people who really love it here and are happy.  Some struggle too.  I have lived in France of nearly six years and have enjoyed most of my time here.  We are returning to the UK due the needs our family education etc.  Those are the factors that really influence our decisions.

Just ask yourself lots of questions about where you want to be in life and how you would like future to be, this should be a good starting point. A new country is a new way of doing things and if you are up for the challenge then go for it, some of things you will love and other things will no doubt irritate.  Obviously your partner is full of beans and ideas but you are right to be cautious, look at all the various postings in different subject areas to get a feel of how things are done here, this will give you an insight.  Ignore TV programmes that make everything sound wonderful and also follow your gut feel.  It is nearly always right.

Good luck

Deby

[Will]

I think what Deby says is absolutely right. You need to look at life in another country as a set of challenges, to relieve any feelings of boredom you may be experiencing, rather than an easy life or a solution to all your problems (as so many see it, particularly on the TV).

You are right to to be realistic. You can't live off fresh air and renovating houses is expensive. Some people seem to manage to make money at it, but the market at present is not good for sellers and many are having difficulty in recouping renovation costs. There is also capital gains tax to consider. And France is not the cheap place to live that the TV programmes lead one to believe - unless you grow and raise your own food, are a heavy drinker, a smoker, and in perfect health (somehow those qualifications don't seem very mutually compatible).

Don't totally dismiss the possibility of getting a job. You probably have prospects in selling things to the growing British community. Your partner may also be able to find work, but he would really need reasonable French. But don't rely on finding work either - unemployment is high even among well-qualified French nationals. Pay is low too. 8€ per hour for a 35 hour week doesn't go very far. Capital runs out faster than anybody thinks and we have too many British here working illegally on the black market or commuting to Jersey just to survive.

People will say the responses you have received so far are unnecessarily negative. But they will be people who have either been exceptionally fortunate in getting work (I suppose I can count us in that category) or have been able to come here with substantial pensions. Realism is the key - and gut feeling of course. Do what you feel to be right, as Deby says.

[Selina99]

I just feel like I am at a crossroads in my life and I'm in a wonderful position to be able to choose one of the paths. None of the paths will be without turmoil of some kind, I've never been one to look at things through rose tinted specs, and neither am I a pessimist. I think I'm a realist.

I am reasonably happy with where I am living and with my job. I can't envisage it for the rest of my life though, but the one thing I know I want for as long as I can have it is to have this man for my partner, and if it means moving to France, I think I will have to go with it and make the move. He will be unhappy if he stays here, it has been his lifelong dream to live in France and owning the properties already - well he's getting on with trying to achieve his goals.

Neither of us have been influenced by televsion programmes, in fact I've never seen a single one. I was never that interested in moving abroad, never thought it would happen to me and couldn't see the attraction. Now I can. My man will be there.

I cannot envisage finding a job, if I did it would be a bonus.

Can anyone give me any horror stories and worse case scenarios? LOL. I want to be prepared to talk with him soon and want to see if he's seriously thought about any issues which could arise. What do all you ex-pats miss about the UK?

Selina

[Will]

Selina,

Your situation mirrors my own life as it was some 3-4 years back. A partner who had a long-term desire to be in France, she got the offer of a job, we wanted to stay together... We already had a holiday home here (your partner has two, though probably not yet habitable by the sound of things - if I may mention it Judie had tried the 'wreck in a field' route with her first husband so there's a degree of familiarity there) and I had already rearranged my working life to provide a possibility of moving to France, or anywhere else not too far from S England. So yes, we did it, and it worked for us.

That's not a horror story, quite the opposite. I do have plenty of horrors, I just have to think of some other people we know, or even to look around here at those who have made the move and are finding it difficult. Things don't work out for a lot of people. But there's no way I'm going to tell about other people's private woes on a public forum. Pity you haven't seen the TV programmes because there have been some on the things that can go wrong. They aren't any more gospel-truth than those with the rose-tinted specs on, but they do give a true and comprehensive picture of what can happen, usually due to lack of homework and over-optimism, neither of which seem to apply to you.

You say "None of the paths will be without turmoil of some kind". That's the key. Whatever you do, you sound as if you will be prepared for the obstacles as well as joys. You would probably be one of those people who, when presented with what could be a wonderful opportunity and doesn't take it up, would regret it for years after.

So what I seem to be coming round to is to recommend that you give it a go, as I feel from the words that you use that this is what you really want. The best advice I can give is not to put all the eggs in the single basket. Do keep a base in Britain, even if you have to rent it out. Then you have an exit strategy if things should not work out. But I somehow feel that, for you, they will, despite everything.

[Selina99]

Thank you Will. Your reply brought a tear to my eye...

[Teamedup]

Other things to think about. You have used that word partner. If you aren't married, then I can only say that I would not live in France with someone without being married. If these houses are his, it might not be that easy for him to leave them to you, especially if he has family himself. And even if he could,  as non related people, you could end up with getting on for 60% inheritance taxes to pay if he died first.

You really need to look at your own finances very very carefully, married or not. As in France one can protects one's own interests to some extent even when married.

As you say there is a lot to think about, but bear in mind all this info the UK government are giving to people who live together at the moment and there may be even less protection in France than in the UK and there is precious little there for live in lovers. (Sorry I just cannot be doing with that word partner).

I suppose what I am saying is that if it all went wrong, you could end up going home with nothing at all if you invest everything into his project. I've done the living together thing and been married a long time too, but I am practical by nature and think that things should be set out honestly and visibly just in case the worst happens.

 

[Missy]

[quote]Thank you Will. Your reply brought a tear to my eye...[/quote]

I couldn't agree more with Will's advice!

If things go woopsy-turvy up! you need to keep your base in UK. So rent out your house, make sure you have a good agent to look after it and sort out undesirable tenants.

And keep up with the 'scene' as far as your job is concerned too...

Wishing you the best of luck with whatever decision made... Not easy!

[Selina99]

Teamedup, thank you for your thoughts. Sorry about the word 'partner' but I feel too old to use the word 'boyfriend'.

I have thought about renting my house out, but have also thought about selling it. If I did that, I could pay off ALL my debts (which don't amount to more than a few thousand pounds) and have a tidy lump to put in the bank. Which both of us could use as fallback should things not work out. However, if things do work out, we can then invest some of it into another property to renovate, whether in France or in the UK.

The point about marrying him is very interesting. If we should make a success of this, a few years down the line, what happens to me if something happens to him, and I have invested years of work and money into the property? Will it all go to his child and the child's mother? Hmmm. He does say that if I decide to move to France, he will make sure the property is in joint names, but I'm not sure that this will make any difference, doesn't the house go to his child or something, is that not the law?

Apologies if I sound really green and inexperienced with these questions, it's because I am.

[Will]

Thanks - and Teamedup's advice is very relevant and important too (thinking in particular of one of the 'horror stories' I had in mind during my last post).

Owning in joint names, whether married or not, is only a partial solution. You could be in particular difficulty if not married and something happens, in that find you only own half of each house and have whacking inheritance taxes to pay on your share (more actual horror stories...). Partner's child's mother probably only enters the equation if something subsequently (God forbid) happens to the child.

If you are married you get not only greater protection, but lower (if any) inheritance taxes. Get married, with the right type of marriage contract, ensure the correct wording is on the Acte de Vente for the house(s), and arrange to adopt any children from previous relationships, and you should be virtually watertight. But now we're getting into the area where specialist, and reliable, legal advice is needed.

What you do regarding property in Britain is of course up to you. But do have an exit strategy of some sort, just in case.

[Tourangelle]

I think being open minded and being prepared to learn as much French as possible are the key. I do not think you pick it up (unless you are under 10!). This is a myth. I could give you a few stories about that for a start. A company I worked for teaching English when I first got here was run by English people and was a very friendly, nice place to work. The people who worked their, appart from the secretarial staff were all native speakers, this was one of the companies selling points to potential clients (not sure now it is such a plus, but that's another story). Anyway the point is that I was there for three years, and two of the people I worked with, lovely though they were, went through life just not using French. They did not bother to learn, and made various excuses (this despite the fact that others did have lessons and learn). They had lots of problems that had to be sorted out by other members of staff who did speak French. One did progress slightly (but not alot considering the time period) the other just lived in this English speaking bubble. I live in a big city, so to an extent this is possible. I don't think it is in the countryside.

In terms of being married or not, let's not forget that marriage means obligations here in France as well as positive. If your partner gets into debt you will be liable. If you are undertaking a large project this is worth considering.

Could you consider taking half measures, and selling your house in the UK to invest with your partner, and buying another property in the UK of a lesser value so you would have something to return to? I certainly think that if you are hesitant then you should not do anything too drastic.

I think this is not the greatest opportunity of your life, but it is a great opportunity.

[Tresco]

questions only, sorry!

Does your partner own the properties himself, or did he buy them with his ex?

Would your partner be selling/renting out his own property to make the proposed move?

Have you considered the difference in your current occupation and the level of independance and comfort it affords you, compared to the situation you would be going into?

 

 

 

[Selina99]

Hello Tresco

In answer to your questions...

He bought the properties with his ex. He has had a meeting with the Notaire and is taking steps to get the properties put into his name.

He does not own a property in the UK any more.

And yes, I've thought about my occupation and my independence. I'm tired of it. I earn a good wage but all I am doing is working my butt off and paying a mortgage and not really 'living'. I'm sick of being independant and struggling to maintain a lifestyle that gives me no pleasure whatsoever. What's the point of having a nice house, nice car, nice garden if you're always at work paying for it and can never enjoy it? Sometimes I feel like I'd rather live in a tent and not have all the stupid overheads. Rant over.

[Gitane]

Choices.

Yes and no.

saw this and thought it may help you.

Choices

John is the kind of guy you love to hate. He is always in a good mood and always has something positive to say. When someone would ask him how he was doing, he would reply, "If I were any better, I would be twins!"

He was a natural motivator.

If an employee was having a bad day, John was there telling the employee how to look on the positive side of the situation.

Seeing this style really made me curious, so one day I went up and asked him, "I don't get it!

You can't be a positive person all of the time. How do you do it?"

He replied, "Each morning I wake up and say to myself, you have two
choices today. You can choose to be in a good mood or ... you can
choose to be in a bad mood.

 I choose to be in a good mood."

Each time something bad happens, I can choose to be a victim or...I
can choose to learn from it. I choose to learn from it.

Every time someone comes to me complaining, I can choose to accept their complaining or... I can point out the positive side of life. I choose the positive side of life.

"Yeah, right, it's not that easy," I protested.

"Yes, it is," he said. "Life is all about choices. When you cut away all the junk, every situation is a choice. You choose how you react to situations. You choose how people affect your mood.

You choose e to be in a good mood or bad mood. The bottom line: It's
your choice how you live your life."

I reflected on what he said. Soon hereafter, I left the Tower Industry to start my own business.
We lost touch, but I often thought about him when I made a choice about life instead of reacting to it.
Several years later, I heard that he was involved in a serious accident, falling some 60 feet from a communications tower.

After 18 hours of surgery and weeks of intensive care, he was released from the hospital with rods placed in his back.

I saw him about six months after the accident.

When I asked him how he was, he replied, "If I were any better, I'd  be twins Wanna see my scars?"

I declined to see his wounds, but I did ask him what had gone through his mind as the accident took place.

He replied.  "As I lay on the ground, I remembered that I had two choices: I could choose to live or...I could choose to die. I chose to live."

"Weren't you scared? Did you lose consciousness?" I asked.

He continued, "..the paramedics were great.

They kept telling me I was going to be fine. But when they wheeled me into the ER and I saw the expressions on the faces of the doctors and nurses, I got really scared. In their eyes, I read 'he's a dead man'. I knew I needed to take action."

"What did you do?" I asked.

"Well, there was a big burly nurse shouting questions at me," said  John. "She asked if I was allergic to anything. 'Yes, I replied.'
The doctors and nurses stopped working as they waited for my reply. I took a deep breath and yelled, 'Gravity'."

Over their laughter, I told them, "I am choosing to live. Operate on me as if I am alive, not dead."

He lived, thanks to the skill of his doctors, but also because of his amazing attitude...

I learned from him that every day we have the choice to live fully.

Attitude, after all, is everything.

Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Matthew 6:34.

After all today is the tomorrow you worried about yesterday.

You have two choices now:
01. Delete this.
02. Forward it to the people you care about.

You know the choice I made

Jerry Atrick.

[Tresco]

Gitane, that was a good motivational piece. But still;

Selina99 said

I've thought about my occupation and my independence. I'm tired of it. I earn a good wage but all I am doing is working my butt off and paying a mortgage and not really 'living'. I'm sick of being independant and struggling to maintain a lifestyle that gives me no pleasure whatsoever. What's the point of having a nice house, nice car, nice garden if you're always at work paying for it and can never enjoy it? Sometimes I feel like I'd rather live in a tent and not have all the stupid overheads.

Selina, I think I may have been exactly where you are now, and it is (was) awful, the life you describe, but one thing I could not have done was 'live in a tent' (which I suspect you may be headed for), while being a builders mate. Love goes a very long way, but that would stretch it to it's limit.

I wish you the best of luck with whatever you decide to do.

[Will]

Tresco, thanks for that comment. You should post it on every forum that deals with moving to France, or any other 'downsizing' sort of life.

Although its true that material things don't mean everything, I see no point in giving them all up for a so-called better life. A comfortable, civilised house is a very important part of that better life in my view. The house we had when we first came here was probably nicer than many other people's, but I still found I needed somewhere at least as nice as what we had previously in England before I could really feel happy here. Living in a caravan or a couple of rooms and working as a builder's mate might be OK in the short term, I can appreciate that a lot of people will even find it fun, but there has to be something pretty good at the end of it, and the end needs to be within sight.

I don't think it's just me in Hyacinth Bucket mode - more like another thing to seriously consider if your life's ambition isn't to be Bob the Builder.

[Selina99]

These replies are helping me more than any of you could ever know. Thank you so much.

There is another option for us, one that got me more excited than the thought of packing up and moving to France (which to be honest, scared me more than got me excited)

And that other option is to buy an American motorhome. You know the big boys with the slide-outs and full size everything? A 40ft beast... Well we've been looking at those too. Then when the renovations get too much we can nip off somewhere for a week or so... That sounds more like it. I do feel like I've done the bricks and mortar thing and while I've still got the energy, I should pack a bag and go and see something of the planet other than an office and a semi-detatched.

My head is spinning. There are choices to be made and sometime very soon, I have to be making them. Because you just don't know how many tomorrows you've actually got, do you?

[Teamedup]

Now as life is never straight forward, where would you buy your motor home?

Who's name would it be in, if you are buying it,then probably yours?

If it is a brit motor home would it be easy to register it in France, which you may  have to do and as far as I am aware, should have to do if you are residents. 

So maybe buying a french one would be a better option, (in your name?). We have looked at them. If caravans are usually not as well equipped in France, then camping cars are. Still you pays your money and makes your choice.

 

[bixy]

Some good advice here, especially from TeamedUp. You love this man and want to spend the rest of your life with him so that the story I'm going to tell you may seem completely irrelevant to you. I knew a couple, living together, who bought properties abroad [not in France]. She remortgaged her house and he bought the properties in his name because it was "simpler". The relationship ended. He walked off with the properties, she was left with a massive mortgage.

In my view the risk you are taking of moving to France is equalled by the risk you are taking with your relationship. If things get sticky in France it is likely to put extra pressure on that relationship. There's nothing like poverty to search out the fissures in a partnership. I would urge you to go into the legal side of things very carefully.

As for the language. It seems to me that 'o' level French is not a bad starting point. I also have 'o' level French [failed] and am amazed how much I've picked up and how much I can communicate, albeit in a rather ungrammatical fashion. The French language may be the least of your problems.

Sorry if the above sounds gloomy. It's not meant to - only to urge caution. As a general rule rule when it comes to life changing decisions, my advice would be 'go for it'. There's no point in waiting till the end of your life, never having tried anything and being left with a pile of regrets.

Good luck.

Patrick

[Selina99]

Patrick, thank you.

The one thing I will not do is part with a single penny piece without a shedload of research and a decent legal contract. That's why I'm here, to gather as much information as I can.

Trust is all very well, but when you have worked as long and as hard as I have, and have had experience of failed relationships and near disasters, there is no way in a thousand years would I hand over what little bit I've toiled endlessly to generate, not even if it was to George Clooney on bended knees offering me his hand in marriage.

[Tresco]

 not even if it was to George Clooney on bended knees offering me his hand in marriage.

I think I would go mre than a bit wobbly under those circumstances Selina

I'm relieved to read the rest of your last response though.

[Lizzie15]

I think if you can keep your money safely out of anyone's  hands but your own I would probably go for it!With the financial aspect out of the way the risk is much less,your relationship may well make or break but at least you've got something to go back to! If it all works out really well then that's great and you can invest ( financially) much later  when you're not in such turmoil!!!

 

[Russethouse]

Gosh - I think I could forgive George Clooney an awful lot - but not losing my money.

Its so tempting, but I guess you will be able to make clearer judgments about all sorts of things if you are financially secure.

Bon Chance