Tony F Dordogne Posted July 10, 2005 Share Posted July 10, 2005 My son and his wife arrived today and I don't think I've ever been so pleased to see them. My son is working at Kings College in the Strand and my daughter in law works in an office opposite Kings Cross and they both travel to work from their home in Brixton by bus. My daughter in law had to walk from Queens Park to Brixton on Thursday to get home and told us today that she was pleased to do so, at least she got home all in one piece.Until we moved to France in January, I worked in the Euston area and regularly caught a bus from Camden New Church, which is featured in many of the news reports of the bus bomb and travelled down past the BMA.Jenny used to work in Aldwych and her greatest fear was that a bomb would be placed on the Underground. We both travelled across London when the Irish problem was about and regularly had journey's disrupted, couple of 4 hour journeys right across but at least we got home.We are both news fiends (something to do with our working lives and background I think) and though we have moved to France we have tried to keep up with the UK and French News, TV and newspapers. We asked one of our friends who has lived here for nigh on 20 years what the French version of the Guardian is (being vaguely left of centre politically) and were horrified to know that they had never bought a French newspaper in all the years they have lived here. We sorted it out ourselves but if we don't understand what's going on in France, how can we hope to really integrate here? After all, French politicians set our tax rates and laws so if you don't keep up with at least the French news (generally) how can we understand the country we're living in?Rhetorical question, no real need to answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted July 10, 2005 Share Posted July 10, 2005 I'm sorry but unless I have misread something I find it amazing that people out there expect others to read the news and or watch television and keep up with world events. I also don't understand why a person is taken to task because they don't have time to do any of the above.Personally I only watch TV programs that I like, like wild life programs and some documentaries. I certainly don't allow the TV to rule my day. Papers, I sometimes get the old ones from guests but thats mainly to store for our cat litter tray because to be quite honest thats all most English papers are useful for, letting my cats pee and do No 2's on. Like Jill I don't have much time for news, my days are very productive, I have work, hobbies and other interests which I consider to be far more important. Finally she may, or may not, be like me in as much as I have no interest in a country that has never shown any interest in me (except to get money from and I benefited from a private education care of my parents) and that as far as I can see I shall never return to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tresco Posted July 10, 2005 Share Posted July 10, 2005 Deimos said:One problem with news reports these days is that stories come and go very quickly.So true, but the things that come and go tend to be local stories with a 'bit of spice' that are picked up by the national services, whether press or tv.Something I started a long time before I left UK was to ignore all these type of (parochial) stories, and it was/is hard enough to keep up with the rest. Quillan said: (referring to another posters comments°Finally she may, or may not, be like me in as much as I have no interest in a country that has never shown any interest in me (except to get money from and I benefited from a private education care of my parents) and that as far as I can see I shall never return to.People who were educated privately have frequently benefitted from teachers who were trained at public expense. They also benefit from living in a society where everyone is entitled to a free education, health care (at the point of use) and public health measures which dramatically affect life chances and life expectancy. Even if your family relied solely on private health care, where do you think the majority of the nurses and doctors practicing in the private sector were/are trained?.Please Quillan, don't say the country you were born in was not interested in you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miki Posted July 10, 2005 Share Posted July 10, 2005 Yep, sorry but I do think you may have joined the bunch that have completely missed the point I made to Jill.You, Jill and the worlds population can read anything from the bluddy Dandy through private eye to the Spectator and all possible comics & journals in between or NOT I personally couldn't give two hoots !. If one does not reads books, journals etc (and let's add right here, that my serious guess is, that 90% plus of members on here could not even read a French paper the right way up, sorry but let's not go there !!) where are you going to get your point of view or present knowledge of everyday topics from ? We are humans in a rather large world, agreed ? Well from mine and surely some others point of view, I really cannot understand folks who prefer to live in blinkers, for a start you can't see anything to the sides, that is not to say they have to because I and others want to know about it all though, just a simple statement, take it or leave it but do read the initial sentence of this paragraph.I shall now search for a great big joint to take me away from it all for a while whilst no doubt, even more post on something that was so simple as to be laughable in its clarity....So, once more, Jill said she had no time to read, I said that was unusual (to say the least but there you go, we are all different)I honestly couldn't give a monkeys if she or anyone read or doesn't but for goodness sake, surely one should not ever try offering ANY opinions without at least knowing most if not the full story and, where is one going to read mostly about it.......exactly. Mmm had a thought, through my quite extensive reading and demanding etc, I think I can offer a fair amount of advice to plenty of folks, bluddy fool that I am, by doing all this reading, it saves other bu gg ers from all that trouble...I can already here folks shouting ....................."MUG" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceni Posted July 10, 2005 Share Posted July 10, 2005 "Has it occurred to any of you that if some of the people on the tube trains had been a bit more on the ball/suspicious minded (and I suspect they were a lot more on the ball than people who never read newspapers or watch the news) they might have had a chance of spotting the packages?"But, Dick, that seems to assume that the packages were left on buses/trains rather than still being carried by someone who might want a quick trip to Paradise where the houris await.Johnnot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Smith Posted July 10, 2005 Share Posted July 10, 2005 Yes - but the latest news reports (written and TV) suggest that to have been the case... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letrangere Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 If one does not reads books, journals etc (and let's add right here, that my serious guess is, that 90% plus of members on here could not even read a French paper the right way up, sorry but let's not go there !!) where are you going to get your point of view or present knowledge of everyday topics from ? Well said that man. Admittedly, I'm guilty of possibly reading far too much to the extent that I'm often heard saying, "read somewhere recently...." and can never remember where. But I would go one step further than Miki and encourage people to read a broad range of publications (not just their natural preferred choice of one daily newspaper) so as to get several viewpoints and a wider, more rounded picture, especially on international affairs, during invasions of far flung places, etc. Guess I'm fortunate in that we regularly have the Los Angeles and New York Times in the office (some of the finest journalism on the planet), I read le Monde, Nouvel Observateur, l'Express and, best of all, Paris Match at the library plus order a couple of the UK weekend papers for home. People will ask, "how does she find the time?". Easy, lived for many years without TV and even though we do now have some stations on cable, with the exception of the excellent TV5, find they're all such utter tosh, would far rather settle down with a New York Times review or a Speccie. Sorry folks but I can't understand how people would want to live in France and not be able to at least understand the headlines in the French papers. And we recently discussed the value of the French local rags, which give a truly fascinating, as well as practical insight into the local community. Also fully concur with Ray as to not just speed and accessibility of news on the Internet but the almost limitless range of information available. Love bbc.co.uk but found I couldn't access it at all last Thursday morning... M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patf Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 John and Dick Smith - there are ways of spotting suicide bombers too, though not so clear cut. eg thin face but chunky belly under a jacket, worried/ tense expression, gets on last minute etc. But the majority of tube travellers will have a worried expression at the moment. And if you think that you have identified one , what do you do? Pat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 Miki - Personally, when I can get it the right way up , I buy a local French paper from time to time. I must admit that at the moment it's about twice a week but then I have to write a brief resume of local events for my French tutor. We also get free papers from the prefecture and Council General once a month which are very informative as to whats going on on my doorstep as it were which is my main iterest in (news) life.General - Are not UK papers boring anyway, often going over the same issue day after day when the answer to the problem is so obvious to normal people. If it's a Sunday paper then it's normally some idiot of a reporter who has run a scam of some sort to catch a TV presenter going to a Madam for a quick whipping, a politician bonking a pro in Everton colours or a boy band singer buying a spiff. Then there is all the bits about 84 year old women getting raped, people getting stabbed, murdered or whatever. It's enough to make you want to top your self.Apart from local news I am afraid it's a good bonk, sorry book, at bedtime for me.Bombs - I hear another organisation has now claimed it did the bombing but the police still don't know who did it or who is responsible. Apart from the thought that a fellow human being (if you can call them that) could do such a terrible thing I shall reserve my comments on the issue of what is to be done till they work out who did do it. Mind you the thought of a return to capital punishment comes to mind. I wonder what would happen now if they had a referendum on that issue now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamedup Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 Quillan, that isn't fair. It gives these 'crimes' a sort of Uk exclusivity which isn't true, you can find them all here in France. AND if this sort of thing makes you feel like doing yourself in it raises some interesting points. Does this mean that you have been here too long? There is a very high suicide rate in France, is it rubbing off? And also if the french aren't bombarded with all this doom and gloom, why is the suicide rate so high? They don't mention this on the tv programs do they when they go on about the 'relaxed' life style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pouyade Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 Mes amis I am sneaking a few minutes R and R and turned to the forum thinking I would seek to catch up with and double check that there was still ‘normal’ life out there, albeit with a French flavour. I couldn’t resist though turning to the very interesting set of posts about that which I was trying to R and R away from - the London bombings. I am one of the (many) cops working here in NSY on this horrific case and just wanted to say ‘thank you’ to you all, as representatives of the general public, for the offers of help and support that we have had. It has really boosted us all. I cannot join in the more speculative comments here as you will understand, but can reassure everyone that the MPS (alongside our partners including BTP and the City of London Police) is stretching every sinew in the efforts to return London to normal, protect you and bring the bombers to justice. Vive Londres!! Thank you again Pouyade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lavie Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 [quote]I'm just completely gobsmacked that people are so insular and cut off from events. Or claim to be. I can't imagine being like that.Now - as you are all so keen to say "That's my opinion and I've got ...[/quote]"Has it occurred to any of you that if some of the people on the tube trains had been a bit more on the ball/suspicious minded (and I suspect they were a lot more on the ball than people who never read newspapers or watch the news) they might have had a chance of spotting the packages?"And just what were the poor people supposed to do if they had spotted a package?You are assuming the package sat there for sometime and wasn't spotted.The odds are that the package was only there for a minute or two before exploding - the individuals responsible aren't going to give anyone the chance to escape by fitting a long fuse/timer. The scenario:Stop A - Bomber leaves package behind and gets off train.Assuming this is spotted instantly, people will be need to be asked if it belongs to them. In the meantime, the train is on route to Stop B. But the package explodes on the way. In any emergency the tube will only stop at the next station.No train is going to be stopped every time a package is found - and even if it was vital time would be wasted first with passengers asking each other if this belongs to them. Unfortunately, i feel those on the tube stood no chance - whether the package was spotted or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Smith Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 Sorry, Lavie, that doesn't wash because by your logic you would just wait until it went off. The instructions to travellers are clear and have been for years. At the next station (2 minutes on the tube) pull the emergency handle, evacuate the carriage and let professionals deal with the suspect package. It may explode in that time - but you still do those things until it does. To ask if a package belongs to anyone takes 10 seconds max.You say I am assuming things - but you weave a whole fantasy here! How do you know that no-one stood a chance? You are making it up!And yes, trains are going to be stopped every time a package is found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Smith Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 Pouyade - your work is much appreciated, all strength to you and your colleagues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lavie Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 The main point of my reply was in response to your comment:"Has it occurred to any of you that if some of the people on the tube trains had been a bit more on the ball/suspicious minded (and I suspect they were a lot more on the ball than people who never read newspapers or watch the news) they might have had a chance of spotting the packages?"I was simply showing how in my opinion it was likely to have made little difference whether the package was spotted or not. Those that do this sort of thing aren't likely to give anyone much chance of escape.And of course a train will be stopped if a package is found. The point i was making (perhaps not clear enough) is that getting it to the next stop and evacuating the train takes time, which is a commodity in very short supply in that situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lavie Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 [quote]Renard said "....I only wish that he could have made exactly the same speech at the height of the IRA’s bomb campaign, sadly he did not, instead he invited Adams and gang to London"Surely it cannot ha...[/quote]Renard said "....I only wish that he could have made exactly the same speech at the height of the IRA’s bomb campaign, sadly he did not, instead he invited Adams and gang to London"Miki said "Surely it cannot have passed you by, that by continuing to keep any form of talks going, slowly, bit by bit, peace was gradually happening until today when the IRA have totally stopped their "war" on the mainland. If we had simply walked away from grabbing any of the chances of negotiations, believing that we must never talk with terrorists, peace could never happen, anywhere. I don't like it any more than the next person but we have to be realisitic and see that the only way to gaining peace in todays world, is through negotiations, however long it might take and with whoever it might take. By the way, Ken Livingstone condemned the IRA on more than one occasion."Ken Livingstone....ah, yes, the same person who invited the extremist Muslim cleric Dr Yusuf al-Qaradawi to London in July 2004 and embraced him on stage despite the complaint of many multi-cultural organisations.Some of al-Qaradawi’s venomous remarks include: refusing to condemn the beheading of Nicholas Berg by militants in Iraq and claiming the Tsunami victims deserved to die. The cleric used his authority in Islamic theology to give his seal of approval for suicide bombers in Israel who target Israeli civilians, and gave his support to the actions of the terrorist group Hamas. All this was widely reported in the Times, BBC etc.So whilst i agree Livingstone made a moving speech last week, we should not forget his past actions and who he sometimes keeps company with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceni Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 "Mind you the thought of a return to capital punishment comes to mind. I wonder what would happen now if they had a referendum on that issue now?"Probably the same result as at any other time. Which is why the govt dare not ask the qusetion - they cannot possibly allow the people to have what they want.Suspicious packages - during rush hours trains and tubes are so packed that a briefcase or backpack left on the floor or luggage rack is not out of place.Implications in other posts that less than vigilant travellers are somehow to blame for their own fate takes PC to new levels (IMO of course).Johnbut not necessarily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 As I write it is reported that American forces based in the UK have been banned, by their commander, from going to London or travelling within the M25 for their own safety.Special relationship ?I sincerely hope its mis-reporting but somehow I fear it isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renaud Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 It is depressing but it seems that the terrorists have found a fairly reliably methodology for killing Londoners (or indeed Parisiens). The only thing that limits them from bombing again is the amount of explosive they can get their hands on. I cannot imagine that it will be long before they get a fresh supply.From what we read it seems that they like to choose days that are some kind of anniversary or have some kind of significance to us or them. Sadly there are quite a few of these - the state opening of Parliment or the day that the allied forces went into Afganistan etc. Also we read that they like to strike at the start of a day so as to get maximum news coverage. So in theory, we should be able to work out when to avoid travelling by tube. I wish we knew more about what are significant date for Osama.---On a personal note, my elder daughter every day travels through Kings Cross by tube at exactly the time that the bombers chose, however last Thursday she decided to take a day off, as I said in my earlier post, I could not stop thinking how lucky we were that day. ---Miki wrote in reply to my earlier posting that Ken Livingstone has issued statements condemning the IRA. Well, if he has I have missed them. But if he indeed has I would put a fiver on the condemnations being a weasley-worded affairs that also condemns the security forces, who had the thankless task of trying to prevent the IRA from killing more people. This kind of thinking would put those who are trying to catch Thursday's bombers on a level with the murderers themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deimos Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 [quote]As I write it is reported that American forces based in the UK have been banned, by their commander, from going to London or travelling within the M25 for their own safety.Special relationship ?I sinc...[/quote]I have seen the same (http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/story/0,16132,1526522,00.html?gusrc=rss). Gives quite a bit of info so it may easily be true. Sort of fits with Mr Bush’s attitude that “nothing that is not in the interest of the US”.Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayB Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 [quote]As I write it is reported that American forces based in the UK have been banned, by their commander, from going to London or travelling within the M25 for their own safety.Special relationship ?I sinc...[/quote]**As I write it is reported that American forces based in the UK have been banned, by their commander, from going to London or travelling within the M25 for their own safety.**You may have noticed that we have no such ban in Baghdad, Tikrit, Mosul, Kabul, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 It looks as if it may have been an order given on Friday that the media have just got there hands on - sadly it hasn't been well handled.>>You may have noticed that we have no such ban in Baghdad, Tikrit, Mosul, Kabul, etc.<<Rather begs the question then, not answers it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayB Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 [quote]It looks as if it may have been an order given on Friday that the media have just got there hands on - sadly it hasn't been well handled.>>You may have noticed that we have no such ban in Baghdad, Tik...[/quote]**Rather begs the question then, not answers it.**I don't understand what that means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 Put it another way - its gives rise to more questions than it answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miki Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 “…..So whilst i agree Livingstone made a moving speech last week, we should not forget his past actions and who he sometimes keeps company with”Whilst you might disagree with whom he talks to, I truly believe he should be able to speak with whom he wishes to. If talking with anyone can bring about understanding, so much the better, where else are we going to find out how others “tick” ? I find it very much OTT to simply say “ who he sometimes keeps company with” makes it sound like a night out with the boys or indeed, a red top headline.“…….Well, if he has I have missed them. But if he indeed has I would put a fiver on the condemnations being a weasley-worded affairs that also condemns the security forces, who had the thankless task of trying to prevent the IRA from killing more people. This kind of thinking would put those who are trying to catch Thursday's bombers on a level with the murderers themselves.”Well if you have missed them, so be it, then I would politely suggest, that from today you buy a paper which covers the news and not the headlines, that is of course if you want to. From my understanding and I believe it to be totally correct, we were in pretty serious talks with the IRA from John Major onwards. So to condemn Ken Livingstone for doing the same is a little rich !“Weasly worded” you say, how plainly obvious it is where your leanings are politically. Is that the best you can say for someone the Londoners have voted in as Mayor, not only as a Labour candidate but as an Independent and is highly rated by many Londoners for speaking out for London and not cow tailing to any one else in his quest for what he believes to be best for London. He is well supported by his fellow Londoners, perhaps not by you but by many others. To put him “level with the murderers is simply pathetic and ridiculous.I don't agree with all he says or does but I do try to keep thoughts on things subjective not follow the simplistic views of the red tops and just opposed politics, whatever anyone does or says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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