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Strimming on a public holiday


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My 82 year old father has just had a very unhappy experience.  Someone was strimming his grass and a "person", who said he was on holiday nearby, stormed up his drive and said that it was illegal to work and make a noise on a holiday. He said the noise was disturbing his holiday and he wanted 2000 euros in compensation!!!!!

The person strimming (not me) said that of course he would stop but would not pay him anything.

Does this man have right on his side? Is there in fact a law that prevents noisy garden work on a public holiday and perhaps a Sunday too?

We do know that there is a law like this in Germany.

Any info/comments appreciated!

Mrs H

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"Is there in fact a law that prevents noisy garden work on a public holiday and perhaps a Sunday too?"

Sobody can correct me if I am wrong but I have never heard of that one before and neither have the people round here as they have all sorts of things going on Sundays, bank holidays etc. If there is such a law I could make a killing, probably be a millionaire in side a month.

Personally if it were me I would ask for them to proove it or call the police and carry on just out of spite. If the person asked me nicely to stop I would but I don't respond well to threats.

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Around here it is Sundays, holidays and after a certain time on Saturday afternoons.

I always thought it was a "social law" here but, for those living in the country, I doubt it really matters, it's really a thing for "neighbourhoods".

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I have seen it said (on various forums) that there are times when you can and cannot use machinery that causes a disturbance. The rules appear different for homeowners and professionals.

I do (on occasions) cut my grass and strim between 12:00 and 14:00 (and on Sundays) and have only once been discretely “pulled-up” by a passing cyclist (who did not stop and did not try and claim any money from me). However, I am more then 500m from my nearest neighbour and they are framers to I don’t worry about it as much as some might. I have the impression that the law is probably not really enforced in most places provided one is being reasonable.

Discussed in more detail in http://forums.livingfrance.com/shwmessage.aspx?forumid=285&messageid=187464

Ian
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There are some local by-laws which do exist in different communes and are usually respected by a gentlemans' agreement.  Asking for compensation is daft.  I think most people would see it like that anyway.

Incidentally, when I lived in Germany it was verboten (forbidden) to hang out your washing, wash your car and cut the grass on a Sunday.  I also had to take my turn every six weeks to sweep the steps and footpath outside the building where I lived!!  This included the truckload of leaves in the Autumn and snow in Winter!

Deby

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If anyone cares to look at the link Deimos posted these are the arrete prefectorale where I live. There may be some variations from one dept to another.

 

Isn't life just noisy enough without some neighbour making noise that they shouldn't when you've just sat down to eat with a group of friends, or even just quietly on your own. I live in the country and farmers have to work and get their crops in etc etc etc, and that is quite different to someone strimming or getting the lawn mower out or worst still chain saw....... ie domestic use.

 

I am for these arrete. I didn't invent them, and I would like these laws to be respected.

 

So this person can complain, porte plainte to maybe the Mairie or Gendarmerie, I'm not sure which. I don't think that they would be entitled to compensation, but there could well be a hefty fine against the perpetrator. I don't actually think that 'age' has anything to do with this.  

 

I'm bloody sick of people doing this. Fed up to the back teeth.

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Oops what have I done ?

Yesterday was a normal working day for carpenter and me on our barn conversion - circular saw, drilling etc from 9.00 - 1.00 and 1.30 - 5.30. But my neighbours, nearest just across the road, did not say a word. Maybe this is because we live in a small hamlet ?

Though on the annoyance front I heard small boy kicking football against a wall at lunch time - should be worth a few hundred € !!

John

not

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Same thing happened to us. Assumption day is a bank holiday here and we were unaware.

We were using an electric sander while painting our house. A young man came storming out of next door telling us we could not make a noise on this day. Our neighbours fought our corner and reminded the young man how he woke everyone at 3 in the morning returning from a night out with his car stereo on maixmum volume. He left ans we continued sanding by hand!

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Thanks for these comments. We will ask the local Maire if there is indeed some bye-law (as it were) about this.

The person complaining was, as far as we can ascertain, a holiday maker so he is unlikely to have known the local custom.

We shall all be careful of using noisy machinery on Sundays and Holidays now. I have to say though that my Father's house is quite a way from any other house!

 

Mrs H

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A general accepted convention in France is you do not use machinery on Sundays or Fete days. Its a day of rest and relaxation. The French work hard and with long hours. The last thing they want is somebody disturbing their chance of a bit of peace in their own home. It's called CONSIDERATION for other people.

Most departments also have bye laws which include this interdiction but really if you need a law to force you to have consideration for your neighbours I am glad I don't live near you.

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I wonder how much of the noise problem is actually that of “degree”. If somebody is out every Sunday, all day with their power tools then it is probably a bit inconsiderate to closer neighbours. However, at some times of year, where people are working during the week, it may be that e.g. Sunday is the only time when it is not raining to cut the grass (at certain times of year). People need to remember that for people who work, time to complete household work is more limited, though the tasks still need to be done.

I think it is a “both ways” thing. People need to be considerate of their neighbours and their neighbours need to be considerate the them. Consideration does not just mean making no noise but consideration of what people want, desire and need to do.

Ian
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 These are Arrete Prefectorale for the departments, rather than the Mairie's having 'local by laws'. Hereford your Mairie will have an official document from the Prefecture and should give you a copy of it if you ask.

 

This is what ours says:

 

Mon to Fri  (normal working days)   8h to 12h and 14h to 19h30

Sat 9h to 12 and 15h to 19h

Sun and Bank hols 10h to 12h

 

Professionals must stop noisy work by 20h and not recommence before 7h unless there is an emergency. This can be amended by the Mairie to suite local needs and requirements.

Animals (especially dogs): we must take every measure to dissuade and stop our dogs making any noise that would annoy our neighbours. Especially constant loud barking. Guard dogs must be trained to only make a noise if there is an infraction.

 

Being nocturnal myself, I am sorely tempted to go and do as my neighbours have done unto me at around 3am just to see how they would 'appreciate' it. Because  I do not 'appreciate'. In those times given above particuliers have 52 hours most weeks to do these things. We too have our DIY, some major jobs and garden to sort. We do them in the proper hours and why not, there is no reason for us not to.

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The times quoted by Teamed up are virtually identical to our local rules.

Though it is unlikely that anyone would enforce them rigidly for a one-off incident, it just isn't the done thing to work oustide the permitted hours.

http://www.juri-logement.org/juri-logement/les_textes/CIRCULAIRES/avant2000/c_270296.htm

Give the details and how they can be enforced. typically £300 fine and confiscation of the offending item.

Some areas even extend the rules to  cover the use of bottle banks!

 

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There are 'by-laws' on this Sunday thing everywhere.

It's to do with 'thou shall not disturb the Lord's day of rest'

When I first arrived in Wales in this very 'chapel' area, I was not allowed to hang out my washing on a Sunday as my elderly neighbour once told me off. I disregarded the argument and pointed out to her that running a B&B business to make ends meet required me to wash and dry sheets at any time of the week! and until I made enough money to buy myself a tumble dryer that is how things would remain.

My Father-in-law told me when his parents had built a tennis court on their property, in order to play tennis at weekends when friends were staying etc... they had to grow a hedge tall enough to block out the tennis court, and any playing going on, from the villagers' view!

I suppose it is just a little curtesy to observe and offer some peace and quiet to the neighbours some of the time!

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We usually take our lead from the farmers round here.  My husband was going to do some strimming yesterday but as he hadn't got started before 11am he also realised that there were none of the usual tractor/combine harvester etc noises going on in the fields around us, so thought he'd better wait til today.  Even though we are a good 500m to our nearest neighbour, noises like strimmers really do carry - especially on hot still days!  Best to sit back and drink a cold beer or glass of wine instead
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One problem with the laws (which is why I break them on occasions) is that I work. If I cut my grass (lawns) it can take two long hard days. These laws actually give you only 9 working hours over a weekend to do such work (and precious little time each evening). Breaking these laws does not make you inconsiderate to neighbours as I believe there is far more to being considerate to neighbours that obeying a law that these days is not particularly practical (which is why around me people will readily ignore the law but will still try and disturb neighbours as little as possible).

Add to this a rainy Saturday (e.g. in spring when the grass is growing really fast) and things get a bit harder.

It is very easy for retired people who have 7 days each week free to do their garden/building/etc. work as they have loads of spare time. For people working it is a bit harder – hence you see people using garden machinery all the time. Somebody else pointed out that those hours give you 52 hours each week to do your work – true unless to have to earn some money.

It may be a fortunate coincidence that there is less work to do over the dry summer when people tend to be on holiday and sitting out and hence there are fewer problems.

However, I would suggest that consideration works both ways and that people should consider others when e.g. using garden machinery and at the same time, e.g. retired people with loads more free time should consider the constraints on people with less time.

Ian
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Ian.

Your point is a fair one but it still means you will not be popular with your neighbours if you work in the off periods. The solution most people seem to use is employing contract gardeners during the working week to do the machinery bits. Contract gardening in rural France seems to be the only sustainable living for local people at present. A couple of hours a week should not break the bank and you can rest all weekend.

Another point which has not been mentioned here is the ban on Trucks using the roads on a Sunday. One of the best laws ever thought up. Makes travelling on Sunday a joy.

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Most people around me seem pretty down to earth. They certainly could not afford contract gardeners (its not a wealthy area and people do not have high disposable incomes). Which is why people are considerate both ways (i.e. people consider those who have no choice but to do the work on e.g. a Sunday). You see people “breaking the law” all the time, particularly in spring and autumn.

(Best costs I’ve had to have my laws cut is €225 per cut). I guess areas differ but here most people do their own garden work.

Fine, if people sit around on a fine Saturday doing nothing then spend all Sunday playing with their chain saw, neighbours would probably complain. However, in practice there seems little problem.

Ian

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Are you seriously suggesting that someone should employ a gardener to do jobs they could do themself in order to preserve a tomb-like silence?  If you are would you like to be the one who tells my nearest neighbour that I don't want her family and grandchildren to visit on a Sunday when the sons always mow the lawn and the kids play in the garden and sometimes, horror of horrors, they play music as well. For goodness sake, get a life. 
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[quote]There are 'by-laws' on this Sunday thing everywhere. It's to do with 'thou shall not disturb the Lord's day of rest'When I first arrived in Wales in this very 'chapel' area, I was not allowed to hang ...[/quote]

My OH says:

"Noise? what ****** noise?.... Can't hear nofing! with them earmuffs on!!"

as he is happily going around cleaning the garden and once that is done is to his enduro bike to get a look at for a scrumble later in the afternoon with the mates!!
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Deimos, and how big do you think most people's gardens are. I don't know of anyone who's grass would take a couple of days to cut. Sounds like you have a small holding and not a garden. So your 'legality' problem is really your own choice. You knew you had to work when you bought it, having to work is a bit of a feeble excuse isn't it?

And we get back to normal working people and theirs will take a couple of hours at most to cut and strim and often, no usually, a lot less. In those fifty two hours a week that are legally allowed, there are 8 hours at a weekend. Even a Sunday, even a bank holiday allows two hours from 10-12.

 

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I was using it as an example. I don’t have a problem as in my area people are “down-to-earth” and considerate both ways (i.e. people cut their grass, etc. when they need to and nobody makes a fuss, even on a Sunday or lunchtime). I do have a fair amount of land but its not all lawn (takes time because its “a fiddle” – trees to cut round, river banks, etc.). I was not “making an excuse”, as there is no problem for me – just making the point that there are other aspects to things.

Spring and autumn are the tricky times as if it rains, then that has “wiped-out” a lot of the “legally” available time. In spring, the dew stays on my lawn until gone lunchtime (making the Sunday hours totally useless). Again, these are details that somebody who has 7 days a week free may not appreciate (or even notice).

Though, as I say people more down to earth round me and everybody just gets on with what needs to be done. No problems.

Ian

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