zeb Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 So Sarko has threatened to expel all "estranges" involved in the disturbances, even those with French residency permits. He said that Some of those held were non French nationals but he didn't appear to know how many. Le Pen must be rubbing his hands together in glee (as will some of the far right on this forum I expect!). Can he do this? So if it's a minor, does the whole family get expelled? Wouldn't it contravene EU laws? And, if it happened, wouldn't it exacabate the situation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Afy Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 I in principle agree with the expulsions. You ahve to respect the law of the land, and if you can not do so that is an issue. However what is the legal valididty of the move under EU law... that remains to be seen. Will this move add fuel to the fires... possibly. Again that remains to be seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkkent Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 So Sarko has threatened to expel all "estranges" involved in the disturbances, even those with French residency permits. He said that Some of those held were non French nationals but he didn't appear to know how many. Le Pen must be rubbing his hands together in glee (as will some of the far right on this forum I expect!). Or perhaps Le Pen may be furious that someone from main stream politics is marginalising him.Can he do this? So if it's a minor, does the whole family get expelled? Wouldn't it contravene EU laws? And, if it happened, wouldn't it exacabate the situation?Citizenship and residence is entirely within the gift of the French government and remains so after being granted. Don't forget that a permit is only that - permission at the government's pleasure - and can be withdrawn. Citizenship is a privilege not a right.States reserve to themselves the absolute right to say who can and who cannot live within their borders. Citizenship which has been acquired by naturalisation can be revoked - and those whose citizenship is consequent upon acquisition by someone else can also have their's revoked. The EU is only concerned with the free movement of labour. The European Convention on Human Rights might be appropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceni Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 Excellent idea - is Papillon's island still in use ?Residency is a privilege but that word is not fashionable is it ?Johnnot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tourangelle Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 It was done for years, but now I thought it had been stopped. It is "la double peine", somebody who commits a crime, who is not French, has a prison sentence and then is expelled to their country of origin. I wouldn't describe my self as being the least bit right wing, but I think it is fair enough if you don't respect the law of the land, and you destroy schools and buses in the country you have chosen to live in, I don't think you should be allowed to stay. I certainly don't think it should apply to children though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceni Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 I (who believes in the conspiracy theory) finds it very very interesting that France, having managed to stop the terror plans and suicide bombings on mainland France (not on their own but putting together all the vast amounts of information that all countries are now working on) should suddenly have this sort of uprising. I wonder if the same people are behind it, knowing that if you start this sort of thing off in one area others will follow - we only have to look at the riots in the UK a few years ago and the aborted attempt to start this sort of problem in Birmingham recently.If they are underage - throw the whole family out as children are brought up and for many years get their views from their parents. If their parents cannot control them -that is their problem and not that of France.If the UK can have home grown suicide bombers then it just shows that the problem is deeper and more insidious than any one believed.as the problems there are supposed to be far less than those in France and Germany/Italy.My family were immigrants into the UK and we are guests here - if we break the laws here I would expect to be thrown out - makes sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Riff-Raff Element Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 It rather depends, I think. As I understand (and I am happy to be corrected):• If they were EU citizens then expulsion could be difficult as they would have no need of residence permits in the first place, so expulsion could lead to all kind of legal malarkey. Far simpler from the French point of view would be to try and convict in France, imprison, and then return to their EU country of origin to serve sentence. This should be a trouble-free route for the authorities;• For minors – they cannot be expelled and, if the children are over the age of criminal responsibility, neither can the parents;• For the others, as has already been said, the residence permit can be withdraw at anytime, though if, for example, the holder has French national dependents, this is highly unlikely. In addition, France will not export troublemakers to countries where they may face torture or execution.In practice I suspect that few people will actually be forced out of the country. This is more an act of tossing a bone to the Foaming Right to give them something to gnaw on while the government gets on with the real job of trying to avoid this kind of thing in the future. It does also marginalise Le Pen, and since he really has nothing useful to contribute, this is probably a good thing.I don’t think that it will inflame things, partly for the reasons above, and partly because these communities are now being offered considerable (overdue) investment they have an interest in keeping hotheads under control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absafc Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 [quote]So Sarko has threatened to expel all "estranges" involved in the disturbances, even those with French residency permits. He said that Some of those held were non French nationals but he didn't appear ...[/quote]I see what you mean about the far right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patf Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 Someone we know was investigated for having worked "on the black" for several years. It was rumoured that he had to sell his house to pay all the back-dated charges and then was to be sent back to UK. Never heard what became of him. Pat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamedup Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 I cannot help but wonder if they will do the same with Sarko if he is ever a naughty boy. As far as I knew all us foreigners could be 'sent back' if we acted out of turn so this happening now is how I thought french law was anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaligoBay Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 I cannot help but wonder if they will do the same with Sarko if he is ever a naughty boy. I think he and his family are too rich and well-connected, TU! It makes a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceni Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 "As far as I knew all us foreigners could be 'sent back' if we acted out of turn "TU - in view of your imminent departure from France is there something that you need to share with yr friends on LF ? Johnand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patmobile Posted November 12, 2005 Share Posted November 12, 2005 If he can and does expel any of the troublemakers, what's the betting they'll all turn up in Britain a couple of weeks later? They'll probably get council houses and generous benefits too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Afy Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 Well the one thing I am worried about is the cops framing someone who actually might not be a trouble maker....The divide is just getting deeper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0zeb100ddMMyyyy0Falseen-USTrue Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 HelloSurely if the police say someone is a trouble maker then it must be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceni Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 "The divide is just getting deeper"I'm not sure that I see how burning cars, shops, factories etc will endear the rioters to the non rioting majority even if they have justifiable grievances. At which point do the rioters forgo their rights through their actions ?I do not believe that politicians EVER solve problems - though they are very good at making lots of noise and diverting attention with smoke and mirrors. The threat of expulsion sounds good but I suspect that even if carried out it would not get rid of enough to make any difference.Johnnot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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