Property Prices - "A Place in the Sun" last night

[WJT]

Carrying on from the "Falling house prices" thread. Did anyone see the Place in the Sun top 20 European locations for investments with Amanda Lamb last night?  If I am remembering correctly France rated 17th in the poll and predicted that if you purchased a property at a value of £100,000 now, in ten years it would be worth around £350,000. I would love to have one of those crystal balls please .

In all seriousness, there have been a number of reports recently stating that the UK market is now looking as if it is on the up with an increase in value over the last month being higher than predicted and looking better for the future.  I personally find this hard to believe with the prices of fuel at the moment, will be interesting to see what happens.

[Renaud]

Romania and Hungary  came out as her top two countries for buying to invest. But who would like to live there?

I guess that most people who own properties in France do so because they like France rather than are looking for the best return on a possible investment. The fact that property prices have been rising is a bonus rather than a financial driver. In fact the old nesting rather than investing senario.

Amanda Lamb's script was full of the most aweful puns but as ever she delivered it to camera delightfully with her full range of simpering. High time that she took over Newsnight from Jeremy Paxman. 

 

[Russethouse]

. High time that she took over Newsnight from Jeremy Paxman. 

Oh go on - I actually looked forward to watching Paxos interview with the Liberal MPs last night.................[;)]

 

[Dotty0]

Clearly you have never visited either  Romania or Hungary.  I haven't either, but I have friends that come from Hungary and I'm told it is beautiful.  Romania has a fantastic landscape, mountains, beaches, rivers.  Perhaps there isn't the ability to earn a great deal of money, but for people wanting to buy a hoilday or second home, then I'm sure these places are ideal.  I think you will find that a few of the low cost airlines are now flying to these countries as well.

So there are quite a few reasons why.

Dotty   

[Renaud]

Dotty, I stand corrected.

Beautiful countries I am sure. However I can't see many of those contemplating buying a house in France switching to buying a house in either country.

If learning workable Frence, starting from schoolroom French,  is a bar to integrating in France, how much harder it must be to learn either Hungarian or Romanian from scratch?

However if you have a spare £100,000 and want to invest it in a 'buy to let' then take Amanda's advice. Get a good lawer though.

[hardhat]

i was very surprised at the price of property in sweeden ,the cost of living is really high in comparison to housing,thats were id put my cash ,ticks all the right boxes for me

[Dotty0]

Renaud

I don't have British tv, so did not see the programme.  I don't really understand your stand point.  Was the programme suggesting we should sell up our French properties and buy in Hungary or Romania?  Was Bulgaria mentioned at all on this list?

Dotty

 

[Ex Forum Admin]

I think the point Renaud is trying to make, and I share, is that the programme was more concerned on where the most money can be made by investing in a property rather than actually living there.

James

 

[Polycarpe]

I have travelled extensively Hungary and it is very beautiful indeed and I believe that Budapest has the richest cultural life of any city in Europe. But if Brits here are having difficulty with French, try Magyar.  IMPOSSIBLE. I understand that it has only five Latin-root words.

I'd kinda like to see Paxo presenting "A Place in the Sun".

[geno]

Hungary is very beautiful in Summer and Budapest is too. However Budapest is turning into an American clone city, and the food absolutely sucks, and so did the wine last time I tried it!

Hungarian is definitely tough; but I think you'll find the language barrier in Romania less difficult, my Romanian friend says French and Romanian are closely linked.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romania

"The Romanian educational system puts a strong emphasis on foreign languages, and Radio România has a channel on which they broadcast in a number of foreign languages. More than a quarter of Romanians understand and speak French and Romania is a member of the Organisation de la Francophonie, with Bucharest being the host of the Summit of Francophony in 2006.

In terms of foreign languages, 5 million Romanians speak English, 4-5 million speak French , 1.5 million speak German, 2 million speak Italian, and 1 million speak Spanish. [5]

Historically, French was the leading foreign language for Romanians to

study, now it is English, so that as a group the English-speakers in

Romania are younger than the French-speakers."

[Alane]

Bear in mind that although France might have come 17th that they said the UK would have come 14th (or therabouts - I was watching while I read the paper) if they hadn't only been looking at overseas options.

This must surely show the weakness of this programme - the regional differences in the UK will mean that some areas will do much better than others and this will surely apply elsewhere.

It was entertaining but as far as investment advice goes - forget it.

Best Regards

Alan.

[Will]

The programme's figures were based on rental income as well as capital appreciation. The point was made in the programme that, in the case of France, the rental market was over-supplied so this fact was taken into account in the forecasting. That, to my mind, gave it a rather better-informed feeling than most other such forecasts.

I do believe that economic considerations are a very big thing for a lot of people moving overseas. Certainly in our part of France there seems to be a substantial number of British who came here because houses were cheap and they saw the cost of living as being low. Liking for the country or its people seems to be a very low priority, as does the desire to learn any more of the language than 'deux bières s'il vous plait'. Of course, when reality sets in and France proves not to be a cheap or easy country in which to live or rebuild a wreck of a house, it is a different story. I rather suspect the same might apply to the former Eastern Europe.

Any forecast, however well researched and informed, is really only guesswork so programmes like this are much more interest and entertainment than sound financial advice. I was interested to learn that Ireland apparently has the best quality of life of any European country - it would be interesting to know how this was established, though my own experience would certainly support it.[:)]

[Gastines]

As an add to information I wish these progammes  would give,whether it be in UK or elsewhere, why don't they give some idea of the yearly costs,ie.rates/water/electricity etc.I note when they give a price of French property ,they don't mention the fees involved in the purchase.

Having just seen a programme where a very small,2 bed terrace house with no parking, situated in Devon was priced at £245.000.00, I don't think there's much profit left there?

Regards.By.St.Malo.

[The Riff-Raff Element]

I'm sure things have changed, but certainly my memories of Romania (a

country with much beauty) are dominated by the need to "make a

donation" to practically everyone we met, underpaid officialdom

particularly. In the end we gave up trying to do business there as we

could not do so by the standards expected of our company in its country

of domicile. Having had a glimpse of the legal system and bureaucracy

there, Romania would not be a place in which I would be in a hurry to

but a house. But then I am rather risk adverse these days.

[Weedon]

Sadly, the programmes content  was neither entertainment nor offering sound investment advice.  It seemed to me to be a vehicle for showing off the comely Miss Lamb's bosom and on that score it succeeded.  The programme was summed up neatly in comely Lamb's closing comments, going something like "of course all of this might change in the next 12 months".  Some sound investment advice for 10 years??

weedon

[moon]

[quote user="Renaud"]

Romania and Hungary  came out as her top two countries for buying to invest. But who would like to live there?

 

[/quote]

I am sure the programme I watched had Romania at No1 and Poland at No 2.

Bob

[Turnip]

The greedy will buy their second homes and push property prices beyond the reach of locals until, one day, the bubble bursts.

[Opalienne]

We don't have English TV either so didn't see the programme, but I guess it all depends on you reasons for buying.  I was in Budapest for the first time last March, and thought it was wonderful and I think I could lived there quite happily.  But the reason for buying in France was because we felt happy here, and had nothing at all to with with appreciation - not because we are rich, but because we want to stay where we are and not speculate.  Sure, if we sell the house one day and find we have made lots of money we are not going  to be upset.  But that's as far as it goes. If when I am retired we go to live in a country where the cost of living is cheaper, it will be for that reason and not because we want to make lots of money.   Sorry if this sounds a bit holier than thou but I've really had enough of people telling me what their houses are worth in the UK and boring on about where they could buy a mansion with pool for half the price......

[hastobe]

From the above it seems most people are looking at the prospective price movements by reference to how much money they may or may not make on the property they already own.  As many have said, if you already have house and intend to remain in France then future price movements become less relevant.  We haven't bought a house in France yet (not from lack of trying!).  Due to personal circumstances, we can't live in France permanently, or indeed for longer periods of time for a few more years (husband's job, kid's education etc).  Because we can't sell our house in the UK, we need to borrow quite a large proportion of the purchase price of  the French house and so, for us, future house price movements are very important. 

If property prices are about to slump we would be better renting gites etc etc for the next few years when we visit France and buy when we are able to spend more time in France.  If, on the other hand we wait and prices continue to climb, we may find that when our circumstances change we can no longer afford to buy.   

We are hoping that as interest rates (EURIBOR) are low and stable that there will not be a huge crash and so whilst we won't make a huge amount of money we won't end up broke either. Making money on the property was never a motivating factor in deciding to buy a home in France - it was a love of the country, the way of life and a step towards the fulfilment of a long term dream to retire to France.   Having said that, we do think that it is a buyers market atm.  Many properties seem overpriced, a number of agents seem to have properties on their books where either the price has been dropped or the property has been for sale for quite some number of months.  But then that is pretty much the picture where we are in the UK.

Hastobe