Just a general rant :-p

[Mattyj198]

I am a first time home buyer in France.

I live just north of Toronto, Ontario Canada and I am very new to

this buying a property in France.

In Canada the real estate process is

very quick. I mean VERY QUICK. All the financial aspects of the

deal are dealt with within a day or so. You usually know your move

in date within a few days as well.

I am having a hard time with the french

way of doing things. I put my offer in sometime in June and they

still don't want anything to do with money yet. I have signed papers

and read over forms. We ask questions and get a response maybe a

week or 2 later. I know this is the way the french do things but it

is very unnerving.

In Canada if things are not settled

very quickly someone else can come in and steal the house away from

you. It has happened to me many times before.

I know its France and I know they do

things a little different and I accept that but I just want to

scream!

At this rate I doubt I will be in the

house until springtime :-p

There, Sorry guys I just had to vent

:-p

[Gardener]

It's slower but less chance of being gazumped etc.

If you have met the asking price, the buyer is generally committed to the sale. If you have negotiated and agreed less, once the seller has signed the compromis , subject to certain conditions, they are committed. If you have signed the compromis and more than 7 days has passed then , subject to specified get out clauses, you are committed also.

Not much will happen next month because most of France stops for August.

The notaire will plod on and do what he/ she needs to do and usually inform you only when and where necessary eg to send you copies of reports, the final acte for checking etc.

I'd say 3 months all being well , you should have the keys unless the buyers are waiting on a new build or something. In fact you should have a provisional date in the compromis for the acte to vente to be signed by , as the agent will not want to wait forever for their cut.

If you want to scream at this stage, then France may not be the place for you. Insert wink: smiley face!

[mint]

Just be thankful that you are buying in France and not in the UK.  At least, in France, once the compromis has been signed by both parties, you can more or less relax in the knowledge that the deal will go ahead.  I am speaking of a situation of course where no mortgage or clause suspensives are involved.

In the UK, someone could come along, agree a price with you, swear on their mother's grave that they will be buying your house and then, on the day of completing purchase, they could pull out without giving a reason and with complete impunity!  You are then left with your house unsold, possible solicitors' fees, etc etc.  Plus if ,in the meantime, you have agreed to buy someone else's house, you feel like a worm disappointing your potential sellers.

Not only that, you would have put up with all the various visits your potential buyer imposes on you:  such as the time they wanted to bring their mother, then the time they wanted their children to see the house, the time when their surveyor called and find all sorts of things wrong with your property, the time when they wanted to measure up for carpets and curtains, the time when they wanted to assess what they needed to do to change the garage into an extension and......well, various visits at various times.  You daren't say "no" in case you lose the sale and these are very hard times in which to try to sell.

Alternatively, as a buyer, you wait for the various "searches" to be done, you get the money in place, you want to complete and the seller finds someone else who makes a higher offer and you go back to Square One with no recompense from anybody.

As I have said, just be grateful, be very grateful that the whole process is so relatively pain-free in France.  Puh.....what's a few delays?  I assure you it's a doddle in France.  Don't forget, everything's relative![:D] 

[Iceni]

sweets, as much as I hate the UK and nearly all the people that live there IMHO you are being a tad unfair about the English way of house dealing.

An exchange of contracts equates pretty well to the French compromis and that gives similar protection to the buyer/seller. If a buyer pulls out on completion date the seller has the 10% deposit to fall back on plus other legal remedies to enforce the sale (IIRC specific performance).

John

[Théière]

If that's driving you mad, you won't survive in France very long. Maybe you should just rent as then you can get back to Canada when ever you want as selling takes even longer [:)]

Welcome to life's slow lane [;-)]

[Mattyj198]

I have spent quite some time in France and the "slow lane" its really not a problem.  And I really don't mind the fact that I won't be in my house for a while.  Its just this funny thing in the back of my head that's always telling me something is wrong.  If you don't seal the deal and get in ASAP your gunna loose it.

Other then that I love the slow pace of France.  I actually get quite a chuckle out of watching my friends at a french restaurant getting really cranky because they wait staff is in no hurry to get you what you want.  I love it.  When I am sitting in a cafe on the street I am there to enjoy myself and there for a while.  Who cares if they bring your coffee 10 min after you order it?

[Théière]

But you only put your offer in sometime in June, I assume 2010 [:)]

We did ours in October and by Feb told the whole party Notaire and all that we were arriving in Feb to complete otherwise I wonder how long they would have taken.

[Simon]

[quote user="sweet 17"]

Just be thankful that you are buying in France and not in the UK.  At least, in France, once the compromis has been signed by both parties, you can more or less relax in the knowledge that the deal will go ahead.  I am speaking of a situation of course where no mortgage or clause suspensives are involved.

In the UK, someone could come along, agree a price with you, swear on their mother's grave that they will be buying your house and then, on the day of completing purchase, they could pull out without giving a reason and with complete impunity!  You are then left with your house unsold, possible solicitors' fees, etc etc.  Plus if ,in the meantime, you have agreed to buy someone else's house, you feel like a worm disappointing your potential sellers.

Not only that, you would have put up with all the various visits your potential buyer imposes on you:  such as the time they wanted to bring their mother, then the time they wanted their children to see the house, the time when their surveyor called and find all sorts of things wrong with your property, the time when they wanted to measure up for carpets and curtains, the time when they wanted to assess what they needed to do to change the garage into an extension and......well, various visits at various times.  You daren't say "no" in case you lose the sale and these are very hard times in which to try to sell.

Alternatively, as a buyer, you wait for the various "searches" to be done, you get the money in place, you want to complete and the seller finds someone else who makes a higher offer and you go back to Square One with no recompense from anybody.

As I have said, just be grateful, be very grateful that the whole process is so relatively pain-free in France.  Puh.....what's a few delays?  I assure you it's a doddle in France.  Don't forget, everything's relative![:D] 

[/quote]

Alarm bells should have been ringing, swear on their mothers grave and then take her along to view the house!!  

[Simon]

[quote user="Iceni"]sweets, as much as I hate the UK and nearly all the people that live there IMHO you are being a tad unfair about the English way of house dealing. An exchange of contracts equates pretty well to the French compromis and that gives similar protection to the buyer/seller. If a buyer pulls out on completion date the seller has the 10% deposit to fall back on plus other legal remedies to enforce the sale (IIRC specific performance). John[/quote]

 

How can you say that you hate nearly all the people who live in the UK, how many of them have you met?

[nomoss]

[quote user="Mattyj198"]

I am a first time home buyer in France. I live just north of Toronto, Ontario Canada and I am very new to this buying a property in France.

In Canada the real estate process is very quick. I mean VERY QUICK. All the financial aspects of the deal are dealt with within a day or so. You usually know your move in date within a few days as well.

I am having a hard time with the french way of doing things. I put my offer in sometime in June and they still don't want anything to do with money yet. I have signed papers and read over forms. We ask questions and get a response maybe a week or 2 later. I know this is the way the french do things but it is very unnerving.

In Canada if things are not settled very quickly someone else can come in and steal the house away from you. It has happened to me many times before.

I know its France and I know they do things a little different and I accept that but I just want to scream!

At this rate I doubt I will be in the house until springtime :-p

There, Sorry guys I just had to vent :-p

[/quote]

Just what "papers" have you signed?

If you have signed a "compromis de vente" both you and the seller are committed, but you should have paid a deposit of between 5% and 10% of the price at the time of signing it, and you say they don't want anything to do with money.

The compromis will also specify a date for completion of the sale ("Acte de Vente").

This deposit should preferably be paid to a Notaire to hold, who also writes, witnesses and holds this contract. Estate agents can also hold deposits, so long as you know they are legally registered and bonded to do so, but personally I see no reason not to have a Notaire do this. You have to pay him anyway to do all the legal work for the sale and collect the taxes due from the purchaser and seller.

On the other hand, if you have signed an "offre d'achat", also called a "promesse d'achat" or "option d'achat", it is illegal for a deposit to be asked for, and it must also have a time limit. It commits you to buy the property, subject to any conditions you may have made, within the stated time limit, and if the seller decides he wants to sell. It does not commit him to sell to you.

To commit the seller you need a "promesse de vente" from him, or you both need to sign a "compromis".

http://www.pro-a-part.com/recherche-immobilier/conseils-achat/promesse-de-vente/offre-d-achat.htm

[mint]

[quote user="Iceni"]sweets, as much as I hate the UK and nearly all the people that live there IMHO you are being a tad unfair about the English way of house dealing. An exchange of contracts equates pretty well to the French compromis and that gives similar protection to the buyer/seller. If a buyer pulls out on completion date the seller has the 10% deposit to fall back on plus other legal remedies to enforce the sale (IIRC specific performance). John[/quote]

Yes, John, that was in the "good old days" when people still paid a deposit.  The last time I sold, about 3 and a bit years ago, there was no deposit, on the basis that the deal will be through in approx 6 weeks and that all the money will be paid at that time.

They now seem to skip the "exchange of constracts" altogether and go straight on to completion.  I suppose the solicitor just wants their fee and protection of their client goes by the board.

Swissie, if you are reading this, please come here and support what I have just said.  Did you not have someone demanding a reduction of the price on the day of signing?

Simon, I know, I know, but I used the expression "on their mother's grave" rather loosely.  Perhaps I should have said "on their grandmother's grave".  But, you are only splitting hairs, you know.  What does it matter whose grave it is because, as sure as eggs is eggs, they don't really mind what the hell they promise you when they know that they have plenty of wriggle room and a fine sense of morality or justice is the last thing they possess.

[Russethouse]

In the UK, someone could come along, agree a price with you, swear on

their mother's grave that they will be buying your house and then, on

the day of completing purchase, they could pull out without giving a

reason and with complete impunity!  You are then left with your house unsold, possible solicitors' fees, etc etc.

I've heard of cases where the buyer has ageee to go through with the sale, then on the day of completion reduces their offer substantially, hoping they have the seller over a barrel !

[Théière]

Surprisingly frequent in a bull market a few years ago.

[Swissie]

Yes - and it cost us hugely both financially and emotionally. Our guy agreed to the price and told us he could move very quickly as he was a cash buyer and had sold his property and had planning permission for the building of 5 houses on his land.  Our Estate Agent checked that this was indeed the case with his solicitor. He then dragged his feet with excuses which sounded perfectly reasonable (as a builder was going to demolish his property and build on it, they were awaiting for soil testing and other bits and pieces. He came to see us to explain, shook our hand, agreed to buy most of our furniture and white goods. He was extatic, blablabla. A couple of weeks later he knocked at the door to say everything was absolutely fine (he lived up the road) - and I told him I was struggling with my parents who were very elderly (we were moving to Switzerland very close to them) and that they were so looking to us being there for Christmas - and I made the huge mistake of shedding a tear. We went to our solicitor to exchange contracts a couple of weeks later (about 8 weeks after he first agreed to buy the house) - and as we were having a celebratory lunch afterwards - our solicitor (a good friend) phoned on OH's mobile to say the guy was at his solicitors ready to sign, but wanted 15% off the price. We were so shocked and angry, we told him to 'go away' (polite version!). By then it was November 2008 and ... you all know what happened to the market. We finally sold in February- and we were in Switzerland burying my mum when we got confirmation-  with a 23% drop on original price. We moved in late March and buried dad a few weeks later. C'est la vie. No regrets though.

Iceni - I am not English, but your comments were gratuitous and totally unfair and yes, the right word is 'racist'.

[mint]

I can't help but wonder whether the doing away with the exchange of contracts with a 10% deposit has anything to do with people borrowing 100% and more on the purchase price (and the banks agreeing to lend that amount!)

After all, if you need to borrow 100%, then you obviously do not have 10% to put down as deposit.

So, in effect, you are free to go around offering to buy people's houses, knowing full well you don't have enough money.  On the day of completion, you do what Swissie's potential purchaser do:  you ask for a substantial reduction.

As I said, no sense of morality or even fair play.  I'm just glad that I no longer have a UK property to sell.

Sorry, OP, if this is a bit off topic but, you did start us all off by having your rant at the French system.  We are just more or less making the point that the French system is far and away better than the English and Welsh systems.

[cooperlola]

Matty, we all have horror estate agent stories to tell in all countries.  Many English want the Scottish system whereby sealed bids get opened on the day of sale and the highest wins.  But I've known people there in the days when the property market was strong, having surveys done on a dozen places before they bid successfully, by which time they had spent twenty grand or more on surveys and ended up with a far inferior place as a result as they had spent most of their deposit money.  No system is perfect but at least, as Sweets says, once you've paid your deposit and signed your compromis, you have a fair chance of ending up with the house you wanted.

The first potentialo buyer of our former home in  the UK backed out a week before we were due to buy our new home in France, having strung us along for six months.  Happily we had a loan to cover the purchase price but it cost us dear and for a couple of weeks (during which time we happily found another buyer) we were wondering if we'd go bankrupt as a result, having resigned from our jobs and taken early retirement.

[pachapapa]

I've found that cash purchases can be quicker than the hassle of mortgages.

[Swissie]

It seems to be very common for purchasers to say they are a 'cash' buyer, and therefore ask for a substantial drop in price for a quick and hassle free sale. We actually got our solicitor to check his credentials. We had several interested buyers haggling, claiming they were 'cash' buyers with nothing to sell- which turned out to be nothing but lies. We did eventually sell to a 'cash' buyer, who turned out to be totally genuine. We feared right to the end that she would ask for a reduction at the last minute (having already bought for 23% of original price) - but she was absolutely true to her word. Our house is now a Kindergarten run by a wonderful Persian woman.

[mint]

Hell's bells, here's me telling sellers that we are "cash buyers", absolutely true as it happens, as we are now retired and cannot possibly get a loan or mortgage even if we wanted to!

Perhaps people out there are saying to themselves, this woman is a lying git and we can discount everything she says![:-))]

I am so blinkered I'm only looking at things from my own viewpoint and quite forgetting how I might appear (and sound) to others!

[woolybanana]

Ask us, dear, we know!![:P]

[Quillan]

[quote user="pachapapa"]I've found that cash purchases can be quicker than the hassle of mortgages.[/quote]

Absolutely, we have just bought three properties to rent out as our pension, we found them through agents and approached the sellers direct and offered 30% below the prices for cash. Actually got them for between 23 and 25% off in the end and paid half through the Notaire and the other half in brown envelopes. When they are sold it will be because we are dead so our daughter will have to pay any CGT but then what she never had she will never miss. Cash is King as they say. [:D]

[mint]

[quote user="woolybanana"]Ask us, dear, we know!![:P][/quote]

Guilty as charged, Wooly.

Hey, how's about you tell us the truth and nothing but the truth about Randy and the MIL and the duck and the snake, etc.?([:P]back!)

[Swissie]

Careful, we know where you are! Is your method totally 'kosher'? Is the taxman stupid - half of -30% = incredible bargain, no?

[Russethouse]

Absolutely, we have just bought three properties to rent out as our

pension, we found them through agents and approached the sellers direct

and offered 30% below the prices for cash

Do you mean you just saw a pic somewhere ?

[woolybanana]

[quote user="sweet 17"]

[quote user="woolybanana"]Ask us, dear, we know!![:P][/quote]

Guilty as charged, Wooly.

Hey, how's about you tell us the truth and nothing but the truth about Randy and the MIL and the duck and the snake, etc.?([:P]back!)

[/quote]

The duck and snake are fast asleep on top of a cupboard, the MIL is being kept in hospital as noone is prepared to look after her - imagine Tati Danielle and Goering rolled into one bucket of sleaze - the dogs are trying to catch rabbits or hedghogs and Randy, well, she has been trying to get under the frock of the new village priest but judging by the look on her face earlier, he may have turned out to be gay and given her more than she bargained for, so she is drowning her sorrows with what is left of my scotch, laced with brandy!

 

Apropos, three properties seems a nice way to look after your pension Quillan!