Chirac spitting his dummy

[Tony F Dordogne]

Seems like Chirac spat his dummy last evening, left/stormed out (depends on the news report) of an EU meeting when a leading French industrialist spoke in English which he described as 'the language of business'.

Whether I agree with Chirac's government or not, what a completely inappropriate way for the President of a leading nation to act in an international arena - the sort of thing de Gaulle may well have have done 40 years ago.

Definately time for him to go I think if he's going to act like that in 2006. 

[Opalienne]

The Luxembourg Minister for European Affairs made a good point, according to Reuters:

"Avec tout l'amour que je porte à la langue française, je crois qu'il y a d'autres problèmes, notamment en France", a-t-il déclaré alors que les Vingt-Cinq allaient dîner.

[Viv]

With all the problems facing France, businessmen  speaking English ain't one of them!

I agree inappropriate and out of touch- time for a change!

[Russethouse]

Isn't this just an illustration of the 'head in sand' attitude plaguing France?

[Alcazar]

[quote user="Russethouse"]Isn't this just an illustration of the 'head in sand' attitude plaguing France?[/quote]

No, I'd say not.

I'd guess he's hoping to appeal to the same kind of French person as Dubya appeals to Americans[:(]

Alcazar

[Renaud]

C'est manifique, mais ce n'est pas la business...

[Mistral]

[quote user="Tony F Dordogne"] the sort of thing de Gaulle may well have have done 40 years ago.[/quote]

I'm guessing you didn't necessarily mean that as a compliment [;)] But for a lot of French people that would be a reason to vote for him

[Rob G]

I understand to an extent the concerns shared by some French people about the continuing erosion of their language in the face of the never-ending growth and expansion of English. However, surely any sensible and well-thought out individual ought to recognise that there are ways of effectively making a point, and that what Chirac did ain't one of them! What an utterly churlish, childish and ill-mannered way to behave. I don't think many people will have been impressed by his little tantrum.

Of course, I speak as an Englishman, albeit one who loves France and the French language in particular. Would be very interested to know how this event is/was seen by le Français moyen.

Rob

[Logan]

[quote user="Mistral"]

[quote user="Tony F Dordogne"] the sort of thing de Gaulle may well have have done 40 years ago.[/quote]

I'm guessing you didn't necessarily mean that as a compliment [;)] But for a lot of French people that would be a reason to vote for him

[/quote]

No. De Gaulle was a statesman of huge character, moral purpose and beyond reproach. Most French people I speak with all agree Chirac is a total embarrassment. The only reason he was elected last time was to keep out Le Pen. Most French people voted for him holding their noses. What a choice eh! Le Pen or Chirac. No wonder the country is going to ruin.

When he finally shuffles off his lofty perch in a few months he will be put on trial for fraud and corruption related to his time as Maire de Paris. No quiet time in Le Chateau in the Correze he. I guess he will try and pardon himself before he goes using the retiring Presidents perogative. Or if his crony De Villepin gets in, he will do it for him.

 

 

[Miki]

"....When he finally shuffles off his lofty perch in a few months he will be

put on trial for fraud and corruption related to his time as Maire de

Paris"

Although I too have held that as a nice memory as to what will happen

when he loses his Presidency, I seem to recall a programme that said

that the likelihood was all charges would be played down somewhat and

any chance of imprisonment would be nil, or at worse be extremely

doubtful. Anyone else recall reading or seeing anything about it ? Mind

you, I  could have been dreaming it but don't think so...

[bixy]

But this isn't about language. Think of the Welsh and the revival of their language in recent years. 80% of Welsh people do not speak Welsh. If the Welsh language disappeared tomorrow it would not make any difference, since everybody also speaks English. So why did this nationalist upsurge occur? It was because the Welsh felt themselves abandoned, ignored, their industry closed down, invaded by English second home owners. Vice the French. It is their nationhood that they feel is under threat. It shows a lack of confidence in themselves. When people have nothing else to cling to, they cling to their language. Look at the Poles. As a nation they did not exist for hundreds of years yet their language never died. I think Chirac [no matter what my opinion of him] represented a more widespread feeling - a fear that France really doesn't matter any more in world affairs. And of course that fear is correct. Only one nation matters any more, no matter how much we might resent it, and that nation speaks English.

Patrick

[Deimos]

The session was actually being led by a Frenchman and thus my understanding is that protocol means that it should have been conducted in French with translators. It was thus a breech of protocol and not maybe just a “huff” (but I’m guessing that there was not a “huff” reaction).

Also, it is interesting that despite being led by a Frenchman it is Tony Blair who is claiming victory over the French (that is over French economic protectionism over energy supplies) !! - which is bound to irritate people even more.

Ian

[Iceni]

I would think that his action would endear Chirac to most of his voters - unless the rest of the world gets a vote of course.

John

not

[The Riff-Raff Element]

[quote user="bixy"]

 And of course that fear is correct. Only one nation matters any

more, no matter how much we might resent it, and that nation speaks

English.

[/quote]

What, China?

[The Riff-Raff Element]

[quote user="Deimos"]The session was actually being led by a Frenchman

and thus my understanding is that protocol means that it should have

been conducted in French with translators. It was thus a breech of

protocol and not maybe just a “huff” (but I’m guessing that there was

not a “huff” reaction).

Also, it is interesting that despite being led by a Frenchman it is

Tony Blair who is claiming victory over the French (that is over French

economic protectionism over energy supplies) !! - which is bound to

irritate people even more.

Ian[/quote]

There is a certain irony here. Mr B may wish to claim victory over

"energy protectionism" but I fear it may be a case of closing the

stable door after the horse has bolted...just how much of the UK energy

market is owned by EDF? Even if the French market for energy were

opened up to "full and free" competition, the French state (as far as I

know) is under no obligation to devest EDF/GDF, and the French seem to

have little appitite for flogging of the family silver for short term

gain.

Libralised energy markets seem to bring little benefit to the consumer

once the first excited flurry of "competition" is over and can jepodise

energy security in the medium term: witness the twitching over gas

supplies to the UK this last winter, the Californian power supply

"crisis" a few years back and the Enron collapse.

[Rob G]

[quote user="bixy"]It is their nationhood that they feel is under threat. It shows a lack of confidence in themselves. When people have nothing else to cling to, they cling to their language. Look at the Poles. As a nation they did not exist for hundreds of years yet their language never died. I think Chirac [no matter what my opinion of him] represented a more widespread feeling - a fear that France really doesn't matter any more in world affairs. And of course that fear is correct.[/quote]

I think you're right to large extent, although this point of view doesn't entirely explain things. The French state has been practising linguistic protectionism from the time of the Revolution, when their nationhood was not particularly under threat (albeit their identity was going through massive changes). The French should wake up and smell the coffee - there is very little chance of their existence and identity being under real threat - French is still one of the world's dominant languages, and France remains the most visited country in the world, and makes a lot of money from that status. What is happening is that in clinging onto this paranoia and defensiveness, France as a nation (unforunately it's not just a few politicians) is accelerating its own relegation to the backwaters of world influence.

Rob

[Dick Smith]

I don't know about the politics (or rather I don't care) but as a one-time linguist I find the whole Academie Francaise thing very strange. At one time (about 100 years ago) France was at the edge of linguistic research and thinking, and they must surely know that in the present age of mass communication languages have to adapt and grow, usually by borrowing from other languages (which is what Franglais is, and what English does so easily). In fact that is one of the reasons for the dominance of English - it is very adaptable and easy to change in new circumstances. The lingua Franca is no longer French, but there is no reason to discount it on those grounds.

I think a lot of it is the love/hate relationship with the USA - a state of denial if ever I saw one. Reading Proust in Macdonalds...

[SaligoBay]

[quote user="Dicksmith"]Reading Proust in Macdonalds...
[/quote]

No need to read Proust in Macdonalds.  They supply the Figaro and the Midi Libre. [;)]

[Dick Smith]

Q to Worf: "Eaten any good books lately?"

[bixy]

Re: China, not yet, jond, but yes it will come, and then the sparks will fly. The Americans will not be happy bunnies.

Dicksmith - I agree with your comments. The only languages that do not change and evolve are dead ones.English contains a massive amount of French - which has been absorbed in a number of waves, and no one gives two hoots.

An anecdote. A French friend is an executive of an international company. Now and then he has meetings with colleagues from other countries - none of them English. But what language is the meeting conducted in? No prizes for the right answer.

Patrick

[tmto]

According to this article http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/4653807.stm the fact that English is the international language of business seems to be hampering the UK economy rather than being an advantage to it! Although I'm a little skeptical about that.

As for the French language, Chirac should simply accept that it is not the international language of business; however it certainly isn't all doom and gloom - it is not a dying language, we can safely assume it will always be spoken in France, and it is still spoken by millions of non-French nationals in many different parts of the world (on 4 continents plus the Pacific and Indian Oceans).

If Chirac is still worried about all of this, he simply needs to look at the Netherlands - a large proportion of the population speaks fluent English, yet get a couple of Dutch people together and they will naturally prefer to converse in their mother tongue, and I can't see that changing in the foreseeable future. Which is good news for English speakers, because it's simply a matter of time before Chinese becomes the new international language, so although we will have to learn it in order to conduct business at least it won't interfere in our daily lives any more than the English language interferes with the way French people live (Chirac excepted).

[Clarkkent]

Which is good news for English speakers, because it's simply a matter of time before Chinese becomes the new international language ...

I'm not sure that I agree with this proposition:

In the first place, except in its written form, Chinese isn't a single language but a group of languages, with Mandarin being dominant. Its written form is difficult to learn. The strength of English comes from its cultural dominance, its widespread distribution in economically-important countries, and the extent to which it has already pervaded so many areas of activity. After all, when Japan occupied the role which China is now beginning to hold, Japanese did not become the world's dominant language. My guess is that as China grows in prosperity, its hard-line leaders will not be able to restrain its population's desire to develop some form of local autonomy - a kind of Balkanisation, I suppose.

As for French, yes, it is spoken in many places, but apart from France and Quebec, none of them are of any importance. In reality, French is no longer a major language: there are more people speaking Spanish or Portuguese than French.

[Tag]

Just a thought Dick, what on earth is a 'one time linguist'?

[Dick Smith]

Once upon a time in a galaxy far, far away a young Jedi thought it would be a life-affirming experience to go forth and teach English to the masses, so he did a linguistics course (Development of the English Language since 1400). It was so good that he added history and then the time came to go to a school and put it all into practice. He looked at the head of English, thought about his vocation, took another look at the head of English and said, in the way of all cunning linguists, "Nah. Not on your Nelly." and transferred tootsweet to the history department, where he has lurked, like Grace Poole in her attic, for the last 33 years, making occasional sorties into Combined Humanities, French, RE and, god help us, PE. Not to mention Pastoral Care, the DfES and Staff Barbecues (oh so many, many staff barbecues...)

[Clarkkent]

... But if you are quite mad and cannot be trusted with a box of matches, why have you been allowed near barbecues?

I would admire someone who carried a firebrand for English.