Help/advice please!!

[Grewars]

Bonjour!

First email from me - here goes..

We are a family of 4 : my wife, two children (ages 14 and 11) and me. I am a secondary school Maths teacher and my wife is an Arts development officer for the local council. We currently live south of Aberdeen. For the last year we have been trying to secure a move to France. The International school job market is very limited, and I am frustrated at our lack of progress. We visit France regularly and I feel it is approaching the 'now or never' phase. This is a permanent move we seek. Any thoughts or advice will be very gratefully received.

Thanks in advance

Donald C. Grewar

p.s. Job offers considered also!

 

 

[TWINKLE]

Hi Donald!

Just wondering if your children can speak french, only considering their age (especially the 14 year old) it can be difficult for them at school at such a critical stage of their education.  I'm sure you've given this consideration - after all you are a teacher. 

There is a very interesting thread on here about education for youngsters in France http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/758211/ShowPost.aspx .

There is definately a shortage of teachers in schools here,  but that is because the government is choosing not to fund these vital extra posts.

Sorry to sound so negative - but the dream can sometimes fog over the reality of actually living here.

[Dick Smith]

Good to see another teacher - soon we'll outnumber the B&B proprieters!

I think that unless you are virtually bilingual you will be looking to teach English - if you wait around a bit the people with real knowledge of that will get to you.

[Chris Head]

Donald, have you read the 'Moving to Limousin' thread in the Earning a living forum? Take your time, there's alot there that might be of use to you.

Mt honest instinct is that your 14 year old is going to find it tough, at best... and the 11 year old will find it a little less tough.

Have you logically gone through the all risks you would be taking ? I don't know what the demand is for your occupation but to me your doubts are shouting out, are you equipped with any other marketable skill that there might be a demand for? Are you used to operating outside of your salaried safety zone?  In other words do you have the 'will & skill' to keep going when the going gets tough? How long would your money last? How much time, effort and money would you be tying up in renovation? Questions questions questions!

[Dick Smith]

I think Chris' answer is honest.

Many years ago we thought of moving to France, but didn't - too many problems finding jobs and moving kids. We ended up buying a holiday home years later - and it has been the right answer!  Think about it.

[Chris Head]

Actually my answer was more dishonest than it was honest in that I didn't really deliver the nittygritty that the original poster, like so many others, want or don't want to hear, with the original posters permission I'll post my truth, based on alot of life experience and observation of others who have tried the same change in lifestyle.

[Grewars]

Many thanks to all who have replied - Chris please feel free to let loose!

The very frank replies are exactly what I seek. I think about this on a daily basis. My wife is very talented in interior design and I know would rise to the challenge of an interior renovation. My kids are up for it also, however I know they may think differently if hit with everything at once! They are not fluent, but have a familiarity with the language and are bright (says the totally neutral father!). I am competent but not fluent - however after a month or two....

Lots of questions and thoughts! Thanks and keep it coming please - you only live once!!

Donald

 

[Grewars]

Just read the other suggested threads - what a valuable source of info!! Lots to think about... can't wait for more thoughts from the forum.. merci mille fois!

Donald

 

[Tresco]

Hi Donald.

How are you 'viewing' the forum?.

There are probably hundreds of threads that could be useful to you if you view from the main page (the link called France Forum above left).

I'm a sceptic, I would never have dreamed of moving here with a 14 year old, unless I spoke fluent French, had money to pay for International School  (and was willing to be parted from my child for 4/5 days a week)  and extra tuition for any child not fluent, and didn't need to earn a living for quite some time, if at all.

But then I'm a lily livered coward.

I've live here for three years now, and have seen/heard of people having the most awful problems with older children. I've also heard of 'success' stories (though not seen any in real life).

Why do you want to move to France? If you've wanted to for some time why have you all not been having intensive French lessons in preparation?. These questions are not meant to be hostile...I'm just wondering.

 

[Grewars]

Points taken - and not in a hostile manner!

I have been trying to secure a teaching job to avoid the 'up sticks' scenario. No joy to date. France is the only country I wish to move to. Love the country, language, culture. Great for kids to broaden life experience, broaden horizons. For my wife and I, I feel a major urge to 'go for it'. You only live once. Don't want the death-bed scenario of 'if only....'. (It is not easy to formulate all these thoughts coherently!...)

On the other hand, obviously lots to consider for the children. Also, I feel I want to move to France - not retire to France.

We have moved from US in 1993, after I lived there for 8 years - is it a genetic thing?!

Regards

Donald

 

 

[Patf]

My suggestion would be to sell your UK house ( assuming you own one) and buy a smaller one which you can rent out when you're away. So you will have a small income and a bolthole to runto if things don't work out , and some capital from the equity of your house.. If things go well in France then you can sell up in UK. Pat.

[nimportequoi]

If you want to teach English in a collège full time, Mistral is the one to tell you about it, but you need a premier degré which is a very difficult qualification to get - you need to have fluent French (and also be a French national??). If you are going to be living near a big town, there is a fair amount of work teaching English to adults in companies, but the pay isn't great, around 20€ an hour and it is done on a contractual basis so you have no job security at all - it rarely gives you a good steady income. If you got around 15 hours a week you'd be lucky. If you have a family to support I don't think it is an viable option if it was to be your sole income.

[Grewars]

Susan and Pat,

Thanks for the replies. I am contemplating getting a TEFL qualification, and I had heard the same about employment in that arena. Pat, the idea of the house sale is definitely worthy of consideration... oh just to ignore all the questions and move! However, we try to be rational beings most of the time!?

Donald

 

[nimportequoi]

Donald,

I got myself a TEFL qualification before coming out here, but got my first jobs teaching because of my professional business experience in the UK. An English friend of mine, who has never done a qualification nor had any teaching experience and what she knows about English grammar could be written on the back of a postage stamp, has also just got a job teaching adults, so just being a native English speaker seems to be enough nowadays.

[Grewars]

Thanks for that Susan - which area are you in?

I would think a move to a decent-sized town (or city) is the most sensible option. I've visited most and favs so far are Bordeaux and Toulouse, although southern area is not a prerequisite. Any thoughts?

Thanks again

Donald

 

[ninahookins]

Hi Donald

We have been here for 3 years now. The original plan was to come over and buy a property with barns to turn into gites. Well that changed, during the first year we rented a property and settled the children at school, they were then 6, 11 and 12.

For us this was a good decision, we aere lucky and the 2 schools we had chosen ( primary and college) were good ones, if we had bought a property in the wrong area with a bad school it would have been difficult to change.

After a year we started to look for somewhere to buy, quickly finding a house through friends from school. We decided not to do the gite thing but to look after english peoples dogs when they went on holiday or back to the uk. 3 years later this is a very succesfull business. All 3 children are now very well intergrated and fluent in french, my oldest daughter has met an english boy - 17 he has come to live with us and gone back to school here lycée so he can learn the language, he has made a slow start but is making progress, its no where near as easy for him as it was for the others, though my eldest at the time of arriving was 12.

To sum up , none of our plans were as we expected but we are all extremley happy and earning a living here, though not what we expected to do. It does take a long time though.

Many people will say i am wrong for saying this but here goes "go for it" but make it work.

Europaschool.fr - my husband and daughters boyfriend go here for french lessons. they teach many languages, i know the school in Angouleme (charente region) is looking for english teachers.

Regards

Nina

[Grewars]

Many thanks Nina - and congratulations on 'going for it'. Sounds like your flexible approach was spot on.

I'll pursue the Angouleme suggestion. Now off to the bank manageress to discuss various things!?

Bonne journee

Donald

 

[nimportequoi]

Donald,

I'm near Rennes, but you should find work in any big cities which have French international businesses operating there, certainly Toulouse and Bordeaux would be options.

[Albert the InfoGipsy]

If it's any help, we considered moving to France when our eldest was just starting his GCSE syllabus. We decided against it because we didn't want to disrupt his education at such a critical point.

After that we had two other sons going through the education mill (youngest has just started a PGCE) so the same logic stopped us for the next 18 years.

I'm pretty sure we made the wrong decision then, although it's hard to be sure. It was purely the educational factor that stopped us, because my wife is French and the boys are bilingual (although they speak better than they write).

We are now in the process of building our retirement home in France, so all is not lost.

[Pangur]

Have you tried Geneva? There are lots of international schools there, and there is no problem in working there and living across the border in France.  I know of lots of UK trained teachers working here - some recruited from the UK, others locally - and a lot of schools pay for your children's school fees too.  Schools generally seem to follow the A level system, or the International Bac.  Your wife might also be able to find work in one of the many NGOs.

The pay in the better schools is much greater than in the UK, although Haute Savoie and Ain are relatively expensive parts of France to live in.  Try the Times Educational website - I believe there are boards there on the best ways of applying for jobs in international schools, if you haven't tried it yet.

[Grewars]

Thanks to all respondents to date - the Geneva idea is a possibilty. Times Ed is my regular Friday port of call. I'll look at their thougths on International applications.

Thanks again....

Donald