Joining the system

[Civraisien]

I work in the Middle East, only returning to our home in France 3 times a year, for 2 weeks each time. Our French home, which officially became ours in September 2004, is our only property, having sold up in UK and settling in France after working in Saudi Arabia for 7 years.

Can my wife and I apply for residency in France, as we wish to 'join the system', but apparently are not required to pay tax due to my not staying in the country for more than 6 months a year. My wife joins me from time to time in the Middle East, but overall spends the majority of her time in France.

Any advice would be appreciated.

[Teamedup]

As a french resident, you should declare you world wide income to the french tax authorities.

Maybe you should talk to a french accountant to see how this will all work out.

[chris pp]

As I understand it residency is now based on filling in a tax declaration - no tax declaration and you are not resident, it's as simple or as complicated as that.    Chris.

[LesLauriers]

[quote]As I understand it residency is now based on filling in a tax declaration - no tax declaration and you are not resident, it's as simple or as complicated as that. Chris.[/quote]

A recent posting by adrianpmills explained it succinctly:

If you move to France with the intention of residing there indefinitely you will become a French tax resident the day after your arrival. You will also be deemed to be tax resident if: France is your main residence or home; you spend more than 183 days there per calendar year; your principal activity is in France; most of your substantial assets are in France. As if that isn’t enough, there is a also an unusual “catch all” in that if you spend more time in France than in any other single jurisdiction then you are also deemed to be resident of France. And, finally, if your spouse is resident of France then you too will be considered resident of France!

If you meet any of these criteria you are liable to pay French taxes on your worldwide income.

[JS14]

You won't necessarily pay French tax on a salary earned abroad. I was working in Holland for a Dutch employer while resident in France. The Dutch salary is not subject to French income tax as the tax treaty between France and the Netherlands specifically excludes it.

[Ron Avery]

[quote]As I understand it residency is now based on filling in a tax declaration - no tax declaration and you are not resident, it's as simple or as complicated as that. Chris.[/quote]

Can I just say, and I am sorry if it offends, but the post

"As I understand it residency is now based on filling in a tax declaration - no tax declaration and you are not resident".... This  is without doubt the single worst piece of ill-informed rubbish I have seen on this Forum and I have posted some myself

Where does this sort of tosh come from?  Where is the expat website where these jokes are printed, can it be closed down?

For pity's sake check your stuff before posting,  people on here need facts not this sort of tosh.

[Will]

Ron - the comment was right up to a point. The point being concerned with liability for capital gains tax, or 'plus value'.

Otherwise, it's exactly as summarised above.

As far as working in one country and living in another, it's where you physically carry out the work that counts for tax, at least where there is a double taxation agreement. There are exceptions, e.g. certain government jobs, or working for a foreign employer on temporary assignment.

I quite agree with Ron about the misleading half-truths posted on certain other forums, including in a few so-called 'fact sheets' written by those with vested interests in selling a product or service, which because they have appeared on the Internet, suddenly assume 'gospel' status. Nobody can be right all the time - I know, like Ron, that I am frequently wrong - and even qualified professionals often disagree about things as complicated as the French taxation and social security systems.

[Ron Avery]

Sorry Will, but which comment was right up to a point? 

Surely you can't mean "residency is now based on filling in a tax declaration - no tax declaration and you are not resident?" 

I suppose that you could read it in several ways, for example, if you needed to be sure that you were a resident, "Oh do I fill in an income tax return, OH Yes then I must be a resident then"  But in the context of this thread and as a statement of what constitutes being a resident in France and liability for paying income tax, as opposed to any other taxes, it is just not correct and very misleading if you happened to read doing a search to see whether you are resident or not.

[Will]

To put it in very simple terms, if you want, for example; to sell your house in France and claim that as it's your principal residence you are not liable for tax, then you have to prove that you are fiscally resident in France - in that case "As I understand it residency is now based on filling in a tax declaration - no tax declaration and you are not resident" is the criterion that is applied.

If it is liability for income tax that is being discussed, and that after all is what this topic started with, then to quote another post, "you become a French tax resident the day after your arrival. You will also be deemed to be tax resident if: France is your main residence or home; you spend more than 183 days there per calendar year; your principal activity is in France; most of your substantial assets are in France; if you spend more time in France than in any other single jurisdiction then you are also deemed to be resident of France;  andif your spouse is resident of France then you too will be considered resident of France. If you meet any of these criteria you are liable to pay French taxes on your worldwide income". That sums it up pretty well.