why are so many leaving?

[porky]

Hello
This is my first posting and i am wondering why so many people are leavin and setting up in France.
I have just spent some months there and most of the people that I come across (English not brits) say many reasons, but the most have 3 things in common.
1 Its the eroding of their culture, many seem to find the state of England's policy on allowing allcomers to have access to many Benfits, Free health care, Free Housing but not to the people that have been born, worked and pay taxes ( and many who lost people defending it) and now cannot live in their old age comfortably, the lucky ones that have enough money get out as quickly as they can, either overseas or to the country.
2 Health, we have now more cases of T.B. Aids and other various dieases that have been brought to this country lately when once it was very small or unknown for years.
3 The state of the policing, so many get away with crime that its now a common policy, to look away rather then be a witness for fear of reprecussions. Take Tony Martin for instance, nuff said.
I could go on, but like many I fear for my family so i'm leaving here as well. Its not just that, I have lived in the same place for over 50 years, (East London)and I do not know any of my neighbours as they have all gone, the small shops are so overpriced that I shop in the supermarkets, the pubs are closing down, the streets are fithly, the roads are in a terrible state, there is no commuity here now at all, and the local council have now published the asylum figures/immigrants and it is now over 66%, and Ken Livingstone well how many want to see him go.

[hastobe]

I agree Tresco - I think porky probably summed it up and there was little more anyone could add...

Kathie

[Dick Smith]

An interesting only-post rant, though.

We do have to try to see everyone's point of view.

[Tresco]

What a lovely little Fluffy Kitten you are!

[Dick Smith]

Why thank you.

[Will]

My first reaction was 'oh, no, not that tired old subject again'. Then I noticed that the original post was nearly three and a half years old.

I think there are many leaving France too - some for Britain, some for other countries. There is regular two-way traffic between Britain, France, Spain and elsewhere.

[Dick Smith]

An interesting factoid (though I am loath to introduce such to this forum as it seems to unsettle some people).

It always used to be said that the First World War had caused a 'lost generation' in the UK. Much later, a noted historian, John Terraine put the idea to the test. He found that the number of war dead (over a period of four years and three months) at 900,000 was almost exactly equivalent to the total number of people emigrating from the UK between 1910 and 1914. This scuppered the idea of a 'lost generation' of course, but it also demonstrates that in the past even more people left the UK to seek their fortunes abroad than now.

So first of all the subject certainly is old and tired, but perhaps the people who see the UK in such negative terms could explain how, in the good old days of deference and monoculturalism, so many people felt the need to leave.

[Turnip]

[quote user="Fluffy Kitten"]An interesting factoid (though I am loath to introduce such to this forum as it seems to unsettle some people).
It always used to be said that the First World War had caused a 'lost generation' in the UK. Much later, a noted historian, John Terraine put the idea to the test. He found that the number of war dead (over a period of four years and three months) at 900,000 was almost exactly equivalent to the total number of people emigrating from the UK between 1910 and 1914. This scuppered the idea of a 'lost generation' of course, but it also demonstrates that in the past even more people left the UK to seek their fortunes abroad than now.
So first of all the subject certainly is old and tired, but perhaps the people who see the UK in such negative terms could explain how, in the good old days of deference and monoculturalism, so many people felt the need to leave.
[/quote]

I blame Nigel and Nippy for the huge increase in people leaving the UK for France ( The power of advertising)[:D]

[Gardian]

I really don't see what the big mystery is about this well-worn subject.

For some, it's to pursue an alternative way of earning a living.  For others, it's either timely or early retirement, with hopefully the means to support themselves properly.  Whatever the circumstances, people will have researched the move to a greater or lesser extent: what's sure is that you never really know about all the pitfalls till you do it.

You re-locate - it might be from SE England to NW England, or from the Midlands to East Anglia, or from Yorkshire to ............. France.  I suspect that for most, it isn't because they've got some kind of big ideological hang-up about the UK - they just happen to quite like it over here and the disadvantages are for the most part liveable with.

And yes, for some, it won't work out and they return, again hopefully without too many bruises.  Just like they might have done from another part of the UK.

[Frederick]

Perhaps for some they just want to go and spend some time in the country their illegal immigrant ancesters came from ....in 1066

[Ejc]

We're on the final countdown as we move at the end of the month - I'm lucky as I work in an Industry that has allowed me to take a home based position in France, hubby has had to take early retirement due to health issues (stress / burnout) and will be managing the garden and menagerie. 10 year old son will become bilingual - so will have advantages in the future.

We can live more cheaply in a house we cou;dn't afford on one salary in the UK and the pace of life is rather more sensible than the UK. Incidently while I'm not moving to where my Grandfather came from, I'm reversing his journey when he came to the UK just after WW1. Pity he didn't insist we all learnt to speak Frtench properly.

Just trying to downsize 25 years of married life into a sensible sized van and working out what's vital to talk from what we'd like to take and "will eventually fit once the build work's done" - so various bits and pieces are all on ebay at the moment

[Will]

EJC - I am sure you are aware of the potential difficulties and costs of home working in France, particularly for a non-French employer.

I don't want to be seen as a prophet of doom, but I implore anybody looking at this way of supporting themselves to seek out chapter and verse before committing to France because 40-60% of your income being lost in cotisations and taxes can be a big shock and a sure way of shattering many French dreams.

[Ejc]

Thanks for your concern Will - but we've done our homework, I will be working for a french company, paying tax etc  all above board - but will be home based most of the time and over half the team I'm joining are native English speakers - so my business french will at least get a more gentle break in.

[Dave]

[quote user="Ejc"]Thanks for your concern Will - but we've done our homework, I will be working for a french company, paying tax etc  all above board - but will be home based most of the time and over half the team I'm joining are native English speakers - so my business french will at least get a more gentle break in.[/quote]

good luck Ej, being employed rather than 'self' employed is really the best start that you can have.[:)]

best regards

Dave

[Will]

...and even more so as it's a French company rather than you as a foreign outpost. You have really landed on your feet, so I hope it works.

[Russethouse]

Gastines

Same story as the 3 workers who died whilst living in a container on a building site.  Paid the basic minimum so they can't even afford to live like humans.

This was local to me - the other side of town and in my humble opinion their names made it very unlikely they were Polish, in fact I believe they all came from Southall.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/berkshire/6212623.stm

Of course they may have been just trying to save a few bob.

 

[RumziGal]

[quote user="Gastines"]

After hearing today that 90 HGV drivers from a firm in Yeovil  have been replaced by a total Polish labour force, I expect I'd be pretty miffed as well. The Poles are apparently quite happy to kip in their cabs and after a 6 month term apply for their tax back and take it all back to Poland. The add-on being that the insurance companies have already noticed an increase in claims from HGV's.  Same story as the 3 workers who died whilst living in a container on a building site.  Paid the basic minimum so they can't even afford to live like humans.I expect we all find the Protectionist stance of the French Govenment a bit frustrating but I'm beginning to wonder who's got it right.

[/quote]

But aren't there complaints in France about building sites being staffed with Polish (and other non-French) workers?   Something about the employers being able to pay them the "living wage" of their home country? 

I'm sure this came up recently, either on here or over on TF.

But you know, if Brits are allowed to move to France to avoid disillusionment with their home country, why shouldn't Polish people do the same?   Think how bad it must be if living in a building-site container is better than what they left behind.   I saw a prog about them before i left France, one lot was an Eastern European family with 2 or 3 children, living under the Paris péripherique in atrocious conditions.   There are sooooo many people sleeping rough under there, you wouldn't believe it!    Anyway, this family was eventually tracked down and housed, but they could still get sent back to the country they came from.

So I'm not sure that France has got it any righter than Britain.  Look at all those Africans that died in that hotel fire in Paris last year, that was horrible.   So many very poor and desperate people packed into substandard hovels like that, it's not good wherever it happens.

[cooperlola]

These people have to be so desperate, you cannot help but wonder what dreadful conditions and circumstances they must have left.

[Miki]

Ah but did you see the report on BBC tonight.

They had a Tory minister on who gave his warbled report on the reasons and then had a slanging match with his counterpart, in which the lady journalist "chairing" the discussion had no command with and so eventually we were shown a report from those that have made the "jump" from the UK.

They spoke to a few people and one lovely quote is still giving me a grin.

When asked why he felt he was any different to the immigants that were the reason he left the UK, he said it was because he was one of the good immigrants who never took anything and only gave to his new country....sad that sometimes life is just so hard to actually come to grips with and that reality is just that little but too far out of reach.....

I bet he is sitting there now with G & T looking over his Kingdom, wondering what happened to the Empire and Turf ciggies.

[Tresco]

[quote user="cooperlola"]These people have to be so desperate, you cannot help but wonder what dreadful conditions and circumstances they must have left.[/quote]

Coops, I thought you were talking about the terrible, desparate, dreadul conditions Brits were leaving.

Weren't you?

[Russethouse]

A journalist of my acquaintance got lots of response to this today :

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1982310,00.html

An interesting view.

[Tresco]

I read it this morning when there were about 40 comments. There are a lot more than that now.

Rarely does someone writing in the 'comment is free' section come back and engage with people responding to them, but he has.

 

 

 

[cooperlola]

[quote user="Tresco"]

[quote user="cooperlola"]These people have to be so desperate, you cannot help but wonder what dreadful conditions and circumstances they must have left.[/quote]

Coops, I thought you were talking about the terrible, desparate, dreadul conditions Brits were leaving.

Weren't you?

[/quote]No, I was referring to people living outdoors under bridges and in containers - wherever they may be.  I cannot imagine what kind of dreadful life you must have left to put up with that.  I used to know a Zimbabwean lad who worked as a fruit picker in Kent.  The farmer was in this case a good bloke and provided good, if  a little basic, living conditions.  This particular lad had watched his entire family being murdered in front of him so a caravan in a field in Kent was paradise after that.

[pennie]

I wouldn't make TB and HIV statistics a reason for moving from England to France! 

[Iceni]

[quote user="Dick Smith"]An interesting only-post rant, though.
We do have to try to see everyone's point of view.
[/quote]

Why ? Thank you ( a definite feeling of deja vu )

John

not