selling babies

[Tag]

The below tells the story of a 15 year old mothertrying to sell her baby in a supermarket car park. Bl**** He**

http://fr.news.yahoo.com/14052007/202/des-roumains-arretes-angouleme-alors-qu-ils-tentaient-de-vendre.html

[Clair]

and another:

http://www.lefigaro.fr/fil-info/20070512.WWW000000038_portugal_une_mere_tente_de_vendre_son_bebe.html

[Tag]

It used to be puppies. Where in he**'s name are we going. Mark you it wasn't that long ago one could buy a wife in UK.

[RumziGal]

I wonder how much they were wanting for her?    How sad.

[Patf]

In India baby girls are given away - that is if they aren't left to die of starvation. The reason is a level of poverty we just have no idea of here. I know because our second son and his wife have adopted 3. Pat.

[Christine Animal]

That's good of them Pat.  I'm sure I would have done the same if I had lived there.

http://www.orphanage.org/asia/india/tnsss/index.html

 

[Wendy]

My sister and her husband tried desperately for 7 years to adopt oversea's from Australia and, in the end, gave up. The reason?...the amount of money the Anglican, Catholic and 'all other' agencies wanted to secure these adoptions. To this day they would love to adopt a baby from anywhere. But cannot. Why? they are: over 40 (but under 45), both divorced previously; both have a child from their previous marriages and, not 'wealthy' enough to pay the exhorbitant fees that are asked.

They live in a lovely home in a beachside suburb of Sydney Australia. Neither are paedophiles or child traffickers.

It seems that ability to pay the 'fee's' is the denominator.

I highly question the motives of adoption agencies.

[Christine Animal]

I quite agree Wen.  We always thought of adoption, even when very young,  instead of making more children when there seemed to be so many in need, but were finally put off as it almost seemed as if you had to "buy" one.

 

[Patf]

Thanks for that link, Christine. They actually live and work in Tamil Nadhu and I've been there to visit. A traumatic experience. Adoption isn't so easy, even if you live there, and obtaining passports even more difficult so they are unable to bring the children out of the country for the moment. Pat.

[Tony F Dordogne]

Interestingly, the people attempting to sell the child in France were described as young Roumanians.  Just been an article on BBC News about immigration to the UK and reported that in Slough they have a large influx of unaccompanied Roumanian Roma children, youngest I think was 9, several of the girls are under 16 and have children.

I suppose that it's their culture to have the children so young but selling a child in a supermarket is just beyond the pale - hopefully the French authorities will take the necessary steps to protect that child and any others that they may have in tow.

[Dick Smith]

The article didn't really make it clear if this was a scam (which I thought was implied), an attempt to get rid of an unwanted child, or someone selling a child because of poverty. The lookouts with baseball bats and so on rather suggests the first option, in which case it is despicable, but the third would be very worrying indeed.

I have seen a sort of variant of this in Moscow in the 80s where Roma would actually throw babies to passers-by and then beg for money. That was unpleasant.

[Chief]

Didn't we used to sell black people........................

[Beryl]

That was then and this is now.

 

[Chief]

[quote user="Beryl"]

That was then and this is now.

[/quote]

Purely as a means of stimulating a debate on 'Changing Values from regional, generational and Global Perspectives' and don't interpret it as anything else.  That was then, this is now, whats changed? How are we interpreting the world in relation to human traffic? How/Why are values so radically different regionally (afterall, to some it seems okay to sell/abuse/discard/etc babies)? Are our values valid in a global context given the socio-economic discrepancies that exist between many nations? What can be done to change values if they need to be changed? ....... Hope tghis isn't too deep for the forum, but it seems like a good opportunity for a decent talking point to me.

[5-element]

Human traffic, yes, a reality that most of us would much rather ignore. You are right about that, Chief.

In various areas of the world, many  (dirt-poor) people sell parts of their body to survive, or for their family. And that is not only in prostitution.

Such as, people selling their blood, over and over again, as the only way to bring a little cash for their family.

Such as, people selling one of their kidneys (there is quite a big trade in organs, worldwide)

Obviously, they can ONLY sell one kidney - if they sold the other, they would die. For the same reason, they cannot sell their heart, or their liver.

There are all kinds of horrors which most of us cannot bear thinking about, but it doesn't make them go away. When it is on our doorstep, within our borders, in our supermarkets, like the sale of that little girl, then we can't  look the other way so easily.

[Chief]

You touch on some important issues.  Our values and morality are very much based on a very cosy and comfortable lifestyle, and those standards we adopt best suit our circumstances.  The reality for many in the third world is that day to day survival is the name of the game.  They can often ill-afford the standards and morals that we in the first world are so ready to impose.  Poverty is a massive killer worldwide.  Given the very real choice between selling a baby or letting the remainder of your family starve, and/or indeed the baby itself starve, what would we realistically do when faced with that type of choice. The really sad aspect to it is that they are very much in a catch 22.  The bigger the family, the greater the chances of survival in an agrarian economy (based upon number of hands to do the work), but also with that comes a greater drain on available family resource.

Cannot also help but think there is a little hypocracy as well.  It seems abhorrent for a refugee to effectively sell a baby, and yet its ok for an A List celeb to go and buy one!!

The trials of life

[Maureen Clark]

Hello to all here!  I've been living & working in Tamil Nadu for about 7 years - give or take and am returning to France to live with my little handicapped "son" - hopefully early next year.

 

Adoption from India is not too complicated...  First  you must receive an 'Acceptance' for adoption certificate from the country you're living in and then CARA (the Indian Adoption Agency) looks for a child for you, if you haven't already decided on a particular child.  You're then awarded guardianship (after many checks have been made on you..full medical, financial, criminal (!) home studies etc..). The passport for the child is issued automatically and takes less than two weeks after guardianship has been awarded and the whole process should not take more than 6 months.  You dont have to pay a fortune for adoption from India - you pay I think it's 150 rupees per day for the child's "upkeep" from when he/she has been accepted by you, plus any medical expences. You do have to pay for the airfare of the child and someone to bring him/her to you if you are not collecting the child yourself - but there are NO hidden costs and no massive fee for adoption from here thank God!

India, however, is a very complex and slow country as far as most things are concerned and the "small print" should always be read!

I'm looking forward very much to returning to the country that has always been close to my heart, France, and hope to make a few friends here on this forum so that we will start to feel "at home" before we arrive! I lived for almost 5 years before near Blaye in the Gironde and a short time in Bellac.