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Is it all hot air?


mint

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We have at long last got our Godin cooker (5 months after placing our order) and we note that it uses butane for the hob bit of it.

Is butane the same as propane or some of the other gases in cylinders you see in garage forecourts?  Would hate to b****r up my brand new cooker after living all this time being able to cook only microwave and steam meals (and toast, of course!)

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Hi S17

Butane has a higher freezing point than Propane. If the bottle is kept indoors then no problem, if outside, it will need protection in freezing conditions. As regards use I'm no expert, but I believe that most modern appliances can run either.

An expert will be along shortly..............................[:)]

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Thanks for your prompt reply, Bugbear.  The cylinder is kept alongside the cooker in the kitchen.  Can't be paying for all that drilling of outside walls and laying of pipes AS WELL as paying for the cooker and installation. 
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Butane is indeed in some of the cylinders you see on the forecourt. However, others contain propane and a few contain a mix of the two. They are quite different and you should take care to get the right one. Running butane through a system designed for propane probably isn't too dangerous, though the flame could be a bit small and smokey, and cooking anything might take a while. Running propane, which has a much higher vapour pressure than butane, through a butane system could be very interesting and involve scorched ceilings and the smell of burning hair. I'm not sure, but I have a feeling that the manufactures of the various systams make sure that one cannot fit the other. But I wouldn't swear to it.

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[quote user="The Riff-Raff Element"]Butane is indeed in some of the cylinders you see on the forecourt. However, others contain propane and a few contain a mix of the two. They are quite different and you should take care to get the right one. Running butane through a system designed for propane probably isn't too dangerous, though the flame could be a bit small and smokey, and cooking anything might take a while. Running propane, which has a much higher vapour pressure than butane, through a butane system could be very interesting and involve scorched ceilings and the smell of burning hair. I'm not sure, but I have a feeling that the manufactures of the various systams make sure that one cannot fit the other. But I wouldn't swear to it.

[/quote]

Both butane and propane have very similar calorific values, the boiling point is drammatically different ( 0.6 vs -42 deg C).

A butane regulator will not fit a propane cylinder and vice versa, hence it is not "accidently" possible to use the wrong combination of cylinder + regulator.

The cooker jet sizes are the same for butane and propane ( but NOT mains gas), only the regulated pressure is different.

If the cylinder is indoors (bloody dangerous IMHO) then a butane regulator and a standard butane cylinder (cE20 from petrol stations) is OK,

Some people claim that propane is necessary if the cylinder is outside, this is true if the ambient temperature around the cylinder is -ve, however, I have butane cylinders outside, in a sheltered area, and have had no gas flow problems at -8 deg C (Normandy, winter of 2005/2006). If you are in an "exposed" area propane would make some sense.

You cannot swop from one to the other without changing the regulator. Regulators for both are readily available at the Brico sheds.

edited: got the boiling temp of butane wrong.

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Powerdesal

Thank you for your comprehensive reply.  Just come to the conclusion that we will stick with the butane.  Can't do anything about the position of the cylinder.  Will just make sure the house insurance is in place!

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[quote user="sweet 17"]

  Will just make sure the house insurance is in place!

[/quote]

And fire extiguisher and first aid kit.

ps; Gas bottles indoors are a particular "phobia" of mine. I work with gas and its dangers are grossly under rated. Its also very difficult to extinguish a gas fire if you cant get to the isolation valve. Still, lots of people in France have internal gas cylinders so perhaps I'm over reacting.

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Thanks, Powerdesal.  Have discussed the potential hazards with my husband and we are agreed that we will get a fire extinguisher and a fire blanket in.

It's good that you have pointed out the potential dangers.  It just concentrates the mind.

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It might also be worth mentioning - I certainly hadn't realsied until recently - that the flexible hose connecting the cooker to the valve and cylinder has a limited life and will need regular renewal.

The hose is printed with the date for replacement.

When I discovered this I went straight to inspect ours and discovered that the hose had actually "expired" before the people we bought the house from had bought it! Feel we had a lucky escape there!

I bet everyone else knew that!

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[quote user="Pads"]Sweet 17 have you got a cellar underneath your kitchen ? If so take it down through he floor into the cellar a much easier option.[/quote]

Sorry to disagree with you Pads, but putting gas cylinders in a cellar is an absolute No-no. The gas is heavier than air and in the event of a leak it cannot escape to outside and will remain in the cellar waiting for a spark.

Boats have the same problem with bottles always being stored in a locker vented to outside of the hull.

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Have we heck!  Bloody house has virtually NO storage whatsoever.  Consequently, have hall stand in the hall, fridge freezer in the hall, linen cupboard in the hall, broom cupboard (outside garden store) in the hall, sit down mower, ordinary mower, golf clubs, bicycles in my neighbour's shed!
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[quote user="woolybanana"]I have my bottle outside and on a hot day it doesnt half get hot and increase the pressure. I scared stiff it is going to explode.[/quote]

Wooly,

How about an open fronted cabinet with sunshade. Gas cylinders should not be stored in full sun - but they wont explode. The sun will however degrade the flexi pipe rather quicker than normal.

The cellar comment above is very relevant. LPG is heavier than air and, even in a kitchen any leaking gas will accumulate at floor level, then think of a "fuel-air" munition ( daisy cutter), thats why I dont like cylinders indoors.

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My cellar is on the ground floor with garage in front , wine cellar, utilerty room at the back which is where the gas bottle is. The front and one side are open but then the ground rises making the back and one side under ground .The garage doors are always open during the day, keeping the area well aired. When we ar'nt there the gas bottle is turned off. So is this Ok or is it still dangerous ? [8-)] 
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 I suppose I could be accused of being paranoid about gas and leakeage / dangers etc. However, a realistic sensible approach is needed. Think of leaking gas as invisible water, it will flow downhill and pool at the lowest level, this can only happen if there is no air movement to disperse it.  I cant remember the safe air / fuel ratio but I suspect that any moving air will be ok.

The boat analogy is a good one to think about, if the gas cannot be dispersed it will be a potential problem. There have been instances where gas has "pooled" in drains etc but I can't think of a domestic incident to quote in that respect.

I apologise if I have inadvertently put the frighteners in to anyone, its just that I have spent years trying to get people to be aware that the 30 in HP gas line that I laid through the city was a bomb waiting to off if someone did some stupid digging in the wrong place and didn't report an impact on the line.

All I would say is, be aware of the potential problems and position gas cylinders accordingly.

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[quote user="powerdesal"]I suspect they do. The stuff added to natural gas is Methyl Mercaptan and its the most disgusting stuff you can imagine. It smells bad enough as a trace in gas but get it concentrated and its vomit making stuff. Really evil smell.[+o(]

[/quote]

Ethyl mercaptan is used in LPG because it is just that little bit less volitile and flows along with the LPG vapour. I wouldn't like propane indoors either, but I'm happy with butane. Propane should definately be kept in the garden in my view.

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[quote user="powerdesal"]A butane regulator will not fit a propane cylinder and vice versa, hence it is not "accidently" possible to use the wrong combination of cylinder + regulator.
[/quote]

beware of miss information  , regulators in France have the same size connection so can be mixed up.

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