winter fuel allowance

[britoninbretagne]

Just want to clarify something for a friend_If you leave England before you are 60 does that mean you are never entitled to the winter fuel allowance even though you've paid your taxes etc. for over 40 years?

[Will]

If your choice is to leave Britain, then part of that choice is to leave the British benefits system. Most such benefits are based on residence, not how much you have paid in tax.The fact that you may have paid taxes for 40 years is irrelevant; you have chosen to terminate your residence so you terminate your benefits. Sorry if it's not the answer you want, but it's how the system works.

However, if you are a British resident when you start claiming, you can continue to be paid winter fuel benefits after you move overseas - much to the disgust of the Daily Mail (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-506947/Britain-posts-10million-winter-fuel-bonuses-pensioners-living-abroad-sunshine.html)

 

[Bannon]

Thats nonsense sorry Will.

It's like saying the bank can take all your money if you leave the country. British residents have that have paid into the system for years should reap the benefits and if that's 'how the system works' then the system is skewed (or screwed, take your choice). Slightly off balance but if  any kids called in for a cup of tea and a bacon butty I'm not going to say sorry but you've left home, sod off.

PS. Daily Mail? Don't get me started.... please.

[krusty]

Dont want to start a "dog fight" with you two doggies ..but what Will says is the fact ....no winter fuel allowance for those who have left before claiming.

[Bannon]

Grrr :-)

 

[Iceni]

[quote user="britoninbretagne"]Just want to clarify something for a friend_If you leave England before you are 60 does that mean you are never entitled to the winter fuel allowance even though you've paid your taxes etc. for over 40 years?[/quote]

Depends on where you go. Elsewhere in the UK you would then qualify if you still lived there at aged 60 - otherwise, forget it.

John

[Iceni]

[quote user="Bannon"]

Slightly off balance but if  any kids called in for a cup of tea and a bacon butty I'm not going to say sorry but you've left home, sod off.

[/quote]

That's very generous of you Bannon. Just let me have your address and I'll send my young goats round.

John

[Will]

It may well be nonsense, but it's fact. Anybody who doesn't like the way the system works can lobby those who have the power to change it. It's called democracy, and you can still have a postal or proxy vote even when living overseas, so 'they' ought to listen to you.

Suely taxation does not buy a package of benefits for you, it goes towards running the country?

 

[tegwini]

I am with you there Will,

But,  the Daily Mail doesn't mention that Brits moving abroad do take some pressure off the system in the UK - eg  no longer using  UK hospitals, schools & etc.        Presumably fewer benefits paid out to ex-pat Brits,  except for those who somehow have managed to leave the UK and keep them - eg IB.

Heaven knows how Gordon is going to raise money in future now that he has spent the last few weeks throwing money around.  Taxes for those working will have to rise. And, can the benefit culture continue ?  Does he sleep at night ?  I suppose his pension is gilt-edged and supremely safe!

Regards

Tegwini

[Sunday Driver]

I think you might be overestimating the impact that a handful of Brits moving abroad will have on the system in the UK......[;-)]

 

[Poppy]

[quote user="Bannon"]

Thats nonsense sorry Will.

It's like saying the bank can take all your money if you leave the country.

[/quote]

It's true though. Couldn't open a UK bank account without a UK address therefore IOM Bank have taken all my money. What a funny world.

[Benjamin]

[quote user="tegwini"]

But,  the Daily Mail doesn't mention that Brits moving abroad do take some pressure off the system in the UK - eg  no longer using  UK hospitals, schools & etc.        Presumably fewer benefits paid out to ex-pat Brits,  except for those who somehow have managed to leave the UK and keep them - eg IB.

Tegwini

[/quote]

You give the impression with this statement that there is something wrong or underhand with people claiming Incapacity Benefit whilst living in another EU country. It's an exportable benefit and always has been. There is nothing somehow have managed about it.

[britoninbretagne]

thank you all so very much for your replies to what I thought would be a simple question-I didn't intend to start WW3!! Now, I was thinking of asking a question about healthcare......................[:)]

[Poppy]

[quote user="britoninbretagne"]thank you all so very much for your replies to what I thought would be a simple question-I didn't intend to start WW3!! Now, I was thinking of asking a question about healthcare......................[:)][/quote]

Whatever you do don't start me off on the French Health Service [6]

[andyh4]

What Will has written is right in the vast majority of cases, but the regulation is somewhat more complex.

There is a date in September (the exact day seems to change each year) where on the year before you reach retirement, if you are still UK resident, you will receieve the fuel allowance when you retire (which could be 16 months later).  Thereafter (and under current rules) you continue to get paid.

 

So in theory you could leave the UK in the year before you retire and still get the allowance provided that you were still resident on the critical day.

 

 

.............and yes it's ******y unfair.

[Baz]

[quote user="andyh4"]

What Will has written is right in the vast majority of cases, but the regulation is somewhat more complex.

There is a date in September (the exact day seems to change each year) where on the year before you reach retirement, if you are still UK resident, you will receieve the fuel allowance when you retire (which could be 16 months later).  Thereafter (and under current rules) you continue to get paid.

So in theory you could leave the UK in the year before you retire and still get the allowance provided that you were still resident on the critical day.

[/quote]

Andy, I am no expert but the rules appear as follows so I cannot see how leaving a year before you qualifying date would apply.

You may qualify for a Winter Fuel Payment for the winter of 2008/2009 if:

• you are aged 60 or over on or before 21 September 2008; and
• you normally live in Great Britain or Northern Ireland on any day in the week of 15 to 21 September 2008

Baz

[Hoddy]

The effect of this regulation is that people still at work, even if they are earning a decent wage, get the fuel allowance. This seems rather silly to me.

Hoddy 

[andyh4]

Baz

Case in point:

You are 60 in say April 2009.

You were residient in the UK during the requisite week in September 2008.  When you reach retirement age next year you will be deemed to be eligible for the winter fuel allowance in December 2009.  (ie the Winter Fuel allowance box on your files will be ticked).  In the mean time you have left the UK.  It matters not a jot.  Your record shows you as eligible.  Yes I know the rule, or rather its execution, is daft.

 

The bit you are quoting is to see if you are eligible now; the situation I have described is for someone who is not eligible (not yet retired)  but who will become eligible.

 

 

[Frederick]

Its not a fair world ...those who have retired to the sun still have to pay out for running cost of the air con to keep cool..or pay the wages of the Punka Walla to keep pulling the string !

[mint]

Punka wallas don't count, Frederick.  You don't pay them much and perhaps you can just give them a few betel leaves!

[Bannon]

I really hate to disagree Will  but in my opinion yes, taxation does or should buy a package of ongoing benefits for you. Your argument if upheld would also mean that once you left the UK your state pension would cease as well. As a long standing taxpayer promised cradle to the grave support under the heading of  a New Jerusalem and post war social care I expect the government of my day to uphold up their side of the bargain and not move the goalposts. But there you go.

On the question of state pensions no one one will be less surprised than me to see it 'wither on the vine'. But guess what? - that's OK because you can claim pension credits as it does so.... except that you need to be a UK resident in order to claim. Sound familier?

Nation states have a duty of care towards it's citizens - it should not disregard them once they cease to earn - the same way if you like as children should not disregard their parents once they are no longer dependent on them and the relationship changes.

Like many others no doubt I do not have a private pension as a bulwark against ever decreasing state provision so as such and to whom it may concern allow me to allude to and to quote from JS Mill - 'Those of whose bread is already secured, and who desire no favours from men in power or  from bodies of men, or from the public, have nothing to fear from the open avowal of any opinions but to be ill thought of and ill spoken of....'

Right, time to get off the soapbox, and go feed those chickens of mine.... and if I find no eggs are being laid?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Cat]

[quote user="Bannon"]

...Nation states have a duty of care towards it's citizens...

[/quote]

And that, of course, is the nub of the problem.  Once someone has chosen to leave their home country, he or she is no longer a citizen of it.

[KathyF]

Andy wrote:  "Baz, Case in point: You are 60 in say April 2009.

You were residient in the UK during the requisite week in September 2008.  When you reach retirement age next year you will be deemed to be eligible for the winter fuel allowance in December 2009.  (ie the Winter Fuel allowance box on your files will be ticked).  In the mean time you have left the UK.  It matters not a jot.  Your record shows you as eligible.  Yes I know the rule, or rather its execution, is daft.

The bit you are quoting is to see if you are eligible now; the situation I have described is for someone who is not eligible (not yet retired)  but who will become eligible.

Sorry, Andy, but this isn't correct, as I know from my sister's experience last year. Her 60th birthday was on October 13th 2007 and she was retiring on that date. However, since she wasn't yet 60 on the qualifying date in September 2007, she didn't qualify for the winter fuel payment for 2007/8 and will finally get her first payment this winter, when she is already 61. The qualifying date in any year is for that year's payment only, not for the following year. Once you've had your first payment, things change completely and you can leave the country and still get the payment in future years.

PS Sorry - forgot to use quote function

[Phil & Pat]

[quote user="Cat"][quote user="Bannon"]

...Nation states have a duty of care towards it's citizens...

[/quote]

And that, of course, is the nub of the problem.  Once someone has chosen to leave their home country, he or she is no longer a citizen of it.

[/quote]

Not sure what you mean by that Cathy.  My passport still shows me as a British Citizen,  will that change to a different category when I renew it?

[andyh4]

Sorry Kathy I deliberately chose an example where the Birthday was before the defining date.  The rules are sufficiently complex that I did not bother to quote them all, but in the example I gave the person would be eligible for the allowance in the first winter.  So unless I missed something in the govermnet small print what I saiud about a birthday in April leading to a first payment in the following December is true.