Accurate numbers of permanent British resdients in France?

[Maricopa]

It is often quoted that there are 500, 000 brits living in France, and I have always wondered as to the accuracy of this figure, so I have taken a look at the INSEE website.

According to this graph, the numbers on 1 Jan 2005 were about 125,000.  Allowing 10% growth per annum (compounded), that would give a figure for the 1 Jan 2009 of about 185,000.

I think that sounds a much more likely number.

What do others think, or does anyone else have suggestions for other more up to date data.

[krusty]

You could try a head count , me and the wife thats two [:P][;-)]

[woolybanana]

You need a lot of hands for us Bananas as we has loads of bababas too.

Many Brits are quietly and happily hidden away in deep France and have been there for years. Noone really knows about them at all though whether the Maries' actually bother to tally their presence is doubtful. I reckon they've got better things to do.

[YCCMB]

I don't know quite where you got your INSEE information from, Maricopa, but the INSEE figures I've seen put the figure at 253,000 in 2006. I'd love to give you a link to this, but I no longer have it and can't find it again. I've just been seraching but can't seem to get back to that VERY detailed INSEE table I found before.

[Maricopa]

YCCMB, did you look at the link I posted?

[YCCMB]

Yay! It wasn't working before, I love you!

Now, what's the difference between my figure and yours?

Well, you're only counting "foreigners" and not "immigrants" and they're in two different tables.

INSEE define the two differently, as follows:

Immigrant

Person residing in France, born foreign in a foreign country.

Foreigner

Person residing in France and not having French nationality.

Thus, the quality of immigrant is defined according to a double, immutable criterion, of nationality and birthplace.

Any immigrant is not foreign: an immigrant could acquire French nationality.

Conversely, any foreigner is not an immigrant: certain foreigners were

born in France. It is the case of 570.000 of them at January 1, 2005

So, pick the bones out of that[:D][:D]

But, essentially, in order to get the total number of Brits in France, you have to add the "immigrants" to the "foreigners" (notice, not an "expat" in sight!!![;-)])

[Anton Redman]

I believe the standard reply from the Foreign Office is that there are about 600,000 British people permanently resident in France. The figure is extrapolated from the number of ten-year passport renewals that they process. This grossly underestimates the figures for people who at any one time have been in France for three months and are watching.

 

Passports are twice as expensive to renew through the UK Embassy in Paris than by fast tracking at Peterborough.

People with homes in both UK in France tend not to admit to being in France most of the year for Income Tax, Inheritance tax and other reasons.

People go over for the summer to look after their gites but make occasional visits to their homes in the UK.

People who wish to keep up UK health cover and avoid paying French Cotisation/NHI contribution

 

M. Sarkosy said his vision of France was not one in which every village had a resident Englishman.

'Au secours les anglais nous envahissent'  published in 2006 would not have got off the ground with only 185,000 residents. RHD cars with French and UK plates. TV dishes aimed at 29 degrees East of South, local supermarkets selling ’British Beer’ small scale British Grocers. Towns with ironic signs ‘Ici On Parle Francais . My best guess is more like 1,200,000 living here at any one time excluding holiday makers.

Just added a link which quotes 500,000 home owners lining in France

http://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/en/france_159/discovering-france_2005/france-from-to-z_1978/country_2004/tourism-in-france_5501/the-english-in-france_9434.html

 

[Anton Redman]

I am not particularly gregarpous person but excluding contacts via the internet and people read about in press and magazine articles. Isabel and I could think of the details of over 160 people that we know off who live (183 days plus a year)  in France.  Granted we have had a house in France for over 15 years and have lived in two Departments but I think it is incrediably unlikely that I have heard of 1 thousanth of the British who are French residents.

Try another one. How many authors can you think of describing their experiences of living in France.  Take an average cast of characters.

[Chancer]

Funnily enough I was only just thinking about the author George East who wrote a series of humourous books on the above and one that actually turned out to be more of a recipe book to fill space, and I wondered if he is still in France or whether he was ever indeed classed as a resident.

Funny books though, the longer I stay here the more true to life his wholly imaginary characters actually become.

[Maricopa]

[quote user="You can call me Betty"]Well, you're only counting "foreigners" and not "immigrants" and they're in two different tables.

INSEE define the two differently, as follows:

Immigrant
Person residing in France, born foreign in a foreign country.

Foreigner
Person residing in France and not having French nationality.
[/quote]

I must admit, when looking at those two tables, the figures for each region are so similar I took it that they were one and the same.  Plus those regions which had less than 4000 were not included.  Even more confusing[8-)]

[Maricopa]

[quote user="Anton Redman"]

I believe the standard reply from the Foreign Office is that there are about 600,000 British people permanently resident in France. The figure is extrapolated from the number of ten-year passport renewals that they process. This grossly underestimates the figures for people who at any one time have been in France for three months and are watching.

 

Just added a link which quotes 500,000 home owners lining in France

[/quote]

Interesting information for the Foreign Office statistics, do you have a link Anton?

As for the quote in the link, I would still like to know where the figure was sourced from.

[Sprogster]

I believe the figure is actually around 300,000. The greater figure refers to Brits with homes in France including maison secondaire.

In terms of countries that Brits move to permanently Australia and Spain are more popular.

[Maricopa]

[quote user="Sprogster"] The greater figure refers to Brits with homes in France including maison secondaire.[/quote]

I agree Sprogster (hence the word permanent in my post title).  That is why I would love to find a source that gives an accurate figure[Www]

[Patf]

The figures for numbers of immigrants from different countries will probably be obtained from census figures. I think the last time a census was completed in one year was 1999. Since then the census is spread out, so many communes etc each year. In our previous commune the census was in 2003, and in our present commune, 2007.

So it will be difficult to get an accurate figure for any one year, looking at it from the french side. A possible explanation for no-one knowing exactly.

 

 

[AnOther]

[quote user="Sprogster"]In terms of countries that Brits move to permanently Australia and Spain are more popular[/quote]Luckily for us huh [;-)]

[Anton Redman]

[quote user="Maricopa"][quote user="Anton Redman"]

I believe the standard reply from the Foreign Office is that there are about 600,000 British people permanently resident in France. The figure is extrapolated from the number of ten-year passport renewals that they process. This grossly underestimates the figures for people who at any one time have been in France for three months and are watching.

 

Just added a link which quotes 500,000 home owners lining in France

[/quote]

Interesting information for the Foreign Office statistics, do you have a link Anton?

As for the quote in the link, I would still like to know where the figure was sourced from.

[/quote]

It came up when the embassy in Paris was justifying outsourcing passport renewels 

[odile]

and of course there are all the hybrids - so many anglo-french families and their off springs/ Where do they fit? Does anyone has a break down where all the anglais are in the different Departments (or shires!).