Right to Roam France?

[Pixietoadstool]

Having crossed "Propriete Prive" and "Defense d'Entrer" signs to cross a wood to which we seem to have free access from the other side, I was wondering what the law was in France about right to roam providing no damage is caused nor anything taken.

Any ideas you legal experts out there?  I have to say that the owner hadn't made significant efforts to stop entry other than a very low bit of barbed wire and chain which was quite easy to simply step over.

Thanks in anticipation!

Valerie

[Teamedup]

I wouldn't cross if such a sign was in place. Too many paysanne have guns.

[Washy]

Dodgy question this.  Liberte, egalite, fraternite, all very Napoleonic this right to roam idea.  Some french people consider they have the right to roam anywhere, and do so frequently across our land, in spite of notices, gates and obvious signs of a private residence. We, as mentioned by Teamedup above, would be very wary about wandering about in woods designated as 'prive' etc. because of hunters, and dare I say it traps which we have been told locals set. 

[Iceni]

I hope that we don't live near Pixie etc - our front door is often left open but that does not mean we want uninvited peeps walking through the house. Or is that different ?

John

not

[Catalpa]

Yes, I think it's different.

If you read the original post, she's talking about walking through woods and fields not front doors. Just a bit different?

Anyone got an answer to Pixie's question ? I'd be interested too.

[Scarlett]

It doesn’t matter what the legalities are, it comes down to respect for other people and their property. It is quite clear that this landowner does not wish to find you on his land – I just hope you are ready for the consequences when he does.

 

[Catalpa]

quote:

++ I just hope you are ready for the consequences when he does ++

 

But what are the consequences?

[IAN_S]

We came here with two horses and were very careful initially as to where we rode having come from the UK where every bit of land seems to be guarded like a prison camp. After a while and conversing with our neighbours, we came to the conclusion that we could go almost anywhere as long as there was not a sign specifically saying certain activities were prohibited, the most common were the chasse signs.

What the law is exactly I'm still not sure, but we have never had a problem in 3 years. The first time we asked the land owner and she said "dogs don't ask permission, do they?"

[Val_2]

I belong to a local walking group led by a recently retired farmer and we walk twice a week on average of 13/14kms each time round our area.Where we roam is no body's business and he certainly takes no notice of any rules,regulations or signs. Several times recently we have ended up tramping across people's land,over electric fences and even back gardens but never any trouble -quite the opposite with a lot of handshaking and bonjours along the way.I did ask about walker's rights and all I got was a shrug and one from the maire also who comes along when he can. We don't however,go into fields where there are livestock or tramp cereal fields,only go round the edges there.

[Pixietoadstool]

I would like to add some more information to my original posting in the hope that this might prompt an answer from someone who knows what the law is about whether or not the public have a right to roam.  I have been a little taken aback by some of the more emotive responses I have receieved - of course I wouldn't walk into your house John but this is something a little more about la vie quotidienne en France - ever read any of Pagnol's books?  Walking in the wilds (not across farmers' fileds) seems to be part of the natural culture here in France and this is what I want to do here in Manche as long as I don't upset anyone - that is why I am asking of course!

 

The wood in question is probably about 10 acres and I have been walking in it for the past year after asking the farmer whether it was possible – he said that several people owned the wood and that nobody should mind if I walked there.  I would point out that access to the wood is along a wide track which fizzles out to lots of little paths within the wood.  There are no barriers to my access nor are there any signs including those referring to la chasse.

 

However, yesterday I came upon the other side of the wood from another walk I was doing back from our local village and it was here I noticed the signs saying “Defense d’Entrer” and “Propriete Privee”.  I need to point out here that  I have had easy and open access to the inside side of the signs for the last year and wondered why they were there especially since the barbed wire across the opening had been laid at only 1 foot off the ground – clearly not at a level which would deter intruders!

 

So this prompted me to wonder whether the signs were just a lot of hot air – i.e. that the owner was not actually able to stop people entering the wood by law.  So does anyone know what the law is please?

 

Valerie

[Scarlett]

Pixie,

 

As far as I know there is no specific law at present aimed at walkers, but if you are found on private land and the owner doesn’t wish you there, then you are obliged to move on (you could theoretically be arrested for a breach of the peace).

 

Is it not evident however that the person erecting barbed wire fencing and putting up signs does not wish to have strangers on his/her property?  There are so many places to walk, I just don’t see why anyone would want to go out of their way to antagonise. Someone mentioned the consequences of such thoughtless action – if my father-in-law caught someone “snooping around” on his land, I rather think it would be pistols (or shotguns) at dawn!  (I'm only half joking!)  If  I were out walking and wanted to cross what was obviously a private property, I would like to think I would have the common courtesy to ask first.  As long as one is polite, the answer is usually yes, and if it is no, again one should have enough respect for that person’s wishes, since it is they that own it and have to pay tax for the privilege.

[Iceni]

Scarlett

Yr reply indicates that trespass is a criminal offence in France as opposed being a civil offence in England - another area where English law could learn from Johnny Foreigner.

catalpa

But my house is built on land that was once a field so perhaps not that different ?

John

not

 

 

[Scarlett]

Iceni,

I don't think there is an actual crime of trespass in France (as far as I know), but what a gendarme friend told me is that if a person deliberately goes onto clearly marked private property, is challenged and refuses to move off smartly, thus creating an 'incident', then that person is considered to be in the wrong, and can be arrested.

As I said before, it all comes down to common sense and basic good manners - I know there are some well behaved walkers out there, but some people (french and other)behave in an appallingly arrogant fashion, and I have no sympathy for them whatsoever when they come unstuck.

[Patf]

Pixie----Val - try asking at the Mairie. Sometimes there are variations in laws etc in different areas. Or ask the person in your commune in charge of the Chasse. Pat.

[Ian]

I wanted a reply to this question and have therefore resurected this thread.  From reading the variety of replies I have (kind of) deduced that one can:

Walk wherever one wishes within the law provided that one doesn't damage any property (crops, gates etc), enter dwellings/buildings and leaves the property if instructed to do so by the owner.

After the passing of nearly 4 years - has anyone anything further to add...? Thanks

[MrCanary]

Ian - it wasn't until I got to your post that I realised the others were that old - thanks for waking me up!

In our area of France (Indre et Loire), or at least in our village, landowners seem quite unconcerned about people walking respectfully on their property. But I think that is just reflective of the very pleasant and happy community where we have our maison secondaire.

Just correcting something Iceni said when this thread started, trespass in England is no longer purely a civil offence. Police can, and regularly do, get involved.

[Anton Redman]

My reading of the law on Criminal Trespass in England and Wales was that the law was restricted to land ownd by the Crown (including the MoD) and land owned by the railwayds.

[Callie]

Like IAN_S, I ride along tracks where there is no sign or barrier indicating that the track is private. In the forest, there are sometimes signs to the side of the track and this normally means that the land on either side is private, but not the track itself.

I cannot understand the mentality that drives people to want to tramp all over other people's land - particularly in France where there are so many public rights of way. These can easily be found by purchasing a blue series IGN map and then checking with the local Mairie which tracks are commune tracks. The deliberate ignoring of signs indicating private property seems rather disrespectful to the owners.

Val_2 - your farmer friend probably has an arrangement or knows the people who own the back gardens you walk through. Otherwise, would you be happy for people to walk through your garden without so much as a by your leave ? (assuming you have one !)

I agree entirely with Scarlett - it doesn't matter what the legalities are, it's a matter of respect for other people and their property. If you are so anxious to walk on someone else's land, why not have the good manners to ask them if you may ?

[Callie]

Like Mel, I've only just realised that this thread is old....

[Thibault]

We purchased the IGN map of our local area, only to find that the "walkers' routes" were all along roads and not across land.  On enquiring at the local tourist office about footpaths etc, we were told that negotiations were still going on with local landowners and that currently there were no designated footpaths on any local land! 

We also purchased the departmental book  - "On Foot in......." and found 99% of these walks were along roads.  The only differences were the GR routes.

[Callie]

It's still worth going to your local Mairie to ask if there are commune tracks, Thibault, which would normally be open to the public. The Mairie would also be able to tell you if there was any sort of local walking group.

I have sometimes heard horse riders bemoaning the lack of tracks to ride on in their area and am surprised that they bought a house without checking whether it was a good riding area first. A visit to the Maire should reveal that sort of information.

There is also your local sous prefecture who may have a leisure and sport department - I know Saumur haas one. They would be able to tell you about any association or walking group in the area.