dave21478 Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Hello,The short version is that someone (French person, and soon-to-be EX friend) owes me a not insignificant sum of money for work I did for them. The money is not forthcoming, and from what I gather, is not likely to be either.If it were in UK, I would be looking to start a small claims court action by now, but frankly have no idea of the wheres, whos, whys and hows of doing something similar in France, assuming there is some kind of equivelant.Could someone give me a few pointers where to look so I can persue this further?Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velcorin Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 The relevant Court information is here http://droit-finances.commentcamarche.net/faq/sujet-192-justice-et-litiges-a-quel-tribunal-s-adresser#la-juridiction-de-proximiteIt's not like the UK or German system. Stamina and patience are needed. A lot of non-recoverable expenses. It may be worth talking to this lot first www.clcv.org, also check if your insurence policies cover "protection juridique", maybe worth taliking to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave21478 Posted February 11, 2009 Author Share Posted February 11, 2009 Ha, a red-tape riddled, tricky, bureaucratic nightmare? In France? Who would have thought it?Looks like its a non-starter though. The work done was "on the black" (yes, yes, I know that was wrong, stupid, daft and silly) so there is no offical contract or bill etc. its just between the two of us.Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velcorin Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Ermmmm. Maybe a bit of "creative" Devis production is required, if you want to go the Tribunal route, you WILL need all the correct paperwork! Is this a case of can't pay, or won't pay?Are there any parts of the "work" you can remove? You would have to be able to prove that you purchased and installed them, if you could steer clear of any gendarme involvement, his only recourse would be to use a Tribunal. Can you think of any way of shaming or humiliating him to pay you? Or... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tj Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 [quote user="dave21478"]The short version is that someone (French person, and soon-to-be EX friend) owes me a not insignificant sum of money for work I did for them. The money is not forthcoming, and from what I gather, is not likely to be either. [/quote]For a few hundred euros, forget the exact limit, there is a free service, 'Tribunal D'instance' office normally located within court building, they will give you a duplicate form to complete, and submit any written or other evidence with it.A copy is then sent to the 3rd party with a date to appear or a chance to pay up.fairly straight forward...........however.....you will need to be legally registered for the work you did,,,and probably more important have an original signed devis from the 3 rd party....otherwise forget it..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Does the same system work for unpaid rent?I am not trying to get the people out just claim for what is owed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tj Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 [quote user="NormanH"]Does the same system work for unpaid rent?I am not trying to get the people out just claim for what is owed.[/quote]I dont see why not, as long your arrangements are all legal and aboveboard, you have a contract, the rent is declared for tax purposes etc.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baypond Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 I would probably look to hire Carol Thatcher ( I heard she was unemployed somewhere), and send her round to verbally melt him in to submission.On a more serious note, I think reputations count for a lot in the smaller communities. Is there a local forum that can help? Does he play for the local rugby team, local football team, drink in local sports bar etc? Is he the type of person that would worry about you letting the locals know what he has done?You may also find that a relentless barrage of requests from you for your money will eventually yield a result. Call him up at 11pm and 5am every day etc etc, he may get fed up and pay you to get you off his back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 [quote user="baypond"]On a more serious note, I think reputations count for a lot in the smaller communities. Is there a local forum that can help? Does he play for the local rugby team, local football team, drink in local sports bar etc? Is he the type of person that would worry about you letting the locals know what he has done?[/quote]In my case one of the worst payers was the person who ran the local bar!Had a big laugh with some of his regulars about getting one over on "l'Anglais" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave21478 Posted February 11, 2009 Author Share Posted February 11, 2009 Thanks for the advice so far.It was ground preparation work I did with a digger, so its not really removeable. Getting the digger back and ripping it all up isnt practical although it would be fun! The agreed price was 1500€. I hired the digger over xmas from a friendly company at a very low rate (it wouldnt have been used otherwise). The neighbour was to pay the full sum to me and I would pass on the cost of the digger to the owners. Not wanting to stiff them on the agreement, I am now considering paying this out of my own pocket, so that the full 1500€ will then only be between me and him.He started his own business as a mechanic about 18 months ago. On the face of things he is doing well....nice cars, new equipment, frequent ski holidays, expensive presents for his kids and has just bough his eldest his first car and paid his driving lessons. The job was finished by the end of december, and I expected payment within the following week or so. Several requests have been replied with "yeah, I will get it next week". Finally last night he admitted the business is failing and he cant pay me. He doesnt seem very morose or upset about the business going down the flusher. Infact he seemed rather upbeat about it. He talked about applying for a small loan to pay me, and we left it at that. Now...a few weeks back I was half-listening to someone gossiping about them and he seemed to think it was all a scam - the business, the flash lifestyle etc and they fully intend to milk what they can and go bankrupt. He mentioned something about the guys dole entitlements and a way he had worked things to still get dole all this time after leaving his last job while working for himself and if bankrupted, would still be able to claim. I dont know how that is supposed to work - just gossip maybe. Anyway, I have found from seperate, reliable sources that when the family moved to this area, they left their last commune under a cloud of debts, broken promises and unfinished work. They were shunned at first here, but eventually settled in. I guess people assumed they were "going straight". Now it looks like history may be repeating itself. The word round the camp-fire is that nobody here would be surprised if they moved away at short notice.I dont care either way. I want whats owed to me. This has already crapped on our friendship - the real kick in the teeth was that the whole family took off at short notice for a long weekend skiing at the start of February! I will eat my shoes if the bill for that was less than 1k€ He has a selection of cars, bikes and scooters that are rarely used - hopefully he will see sense and sell some, or at least sign goods over to me to the value of the debt, but as things are, I am having to rely on his good will. Its not looking rosy.As I suspected, the verbal agreement, lack of devis etc seems to put a stop to any legal recourse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baypond Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Trust and friendship is a valuable commodity. The repayment of the debt is not just financial, but a confirmation that the friendship meant something to him. It looks like you may have been suckered. It will mean nothing to him, but I am dead sure it will have repercussions for you. I think you already know that this probably isn't going to end how you want it too, and that just plain sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odile Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Would be tempted to sell one of his cars whilst he is skiing! But again, it may not be wise.So sorry you got stung- not just the money but the trust + friendship. Being neighbours won't be easy. Bonne chance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Could you dig a ditch round his place so he cant get his cars in or out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG MAC Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 So as I understand it theres a load of 'undigging' to be done, borrow the machine and ask him which car he would like 'undug' first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Yeahhhh!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baypond Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 yeah and to make it a bit more atmospheric, you could play classical music really loudly from the digger cab as you go. Avoid dvorak, to sombre, how about beethovens 5th? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Or hard rock? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odile Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 sadly between hard rock and a hard place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 [quote user="baypond"]yeah and to make it a bit more atmospheric, you could play classical music really loudly from the digger cab as you go. Avoid dvorak, to sombre, how about beethovens 5th?[/quote]No, Baypond, the only composer to play is Mahler!Try one of the "funeral marches": you can generally find one in any of his symphonies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerdesal Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 The theme music from ''Apocalypse Now'' seems appropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Théière Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Negociate a part payment as getting all the money in one go is almost impossible. That way you will wear him down by going back for the next installment and the next and the next.Also you will have some money to go and get the digger to un dig if the second payment is not forth comming. Sweet17, Mahler, far to gentle me thinks.Carl Orff, Carmina Burana [6][6][6] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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