unusual printing of letters

[chocccie]

I'm reading an old book and have noticed what when the letter T follows wither C or S ... the top of the C or S is conected to the top of the T.   Does anybody know why this is?     (if this description doesn't make sense I can take a photo of it and load it up)

I thought it was a printing error at first but it's clearly not.  It looks like some old way of writing/printing.   Would somebody better educated (or possibly just older) than I tell me what it is please!  [:$]

Also can somebody tell me why the comma and the N on my keyboard aren't working??!!!!  It's most annoying.  It's been like this a while sometimes when I reboot it is working fine and then the next time it is duff again.  MOst annoying  [:@]  [:@]  [:@]

[Dog]

They are called ligatures.

For further info read this: http://www.fonts.com/aboutfonts/articles/fyti/ligaturespartone.htm

They make reading easier and it is annoying when they are not used.

As a typographer I am put right off books when they are not used.

The book you are reading may be unusual in it's use of ligatures - is it perhaps from the 1920s or 30s?

 

[Alex H]

[quote user="chocccie"]

Also can somebody tell me why the comma and the N on my keyboard aren't working??!!!!  It's most annoying.  It's been like this a while sometimes when I reboot it is working fine and then the next time it is duff again.  MOst annoying  [:@]  [:@]  [:@]

[/quote]

Try another keyboard?

[quote user="Dog"]

They make reading easier and it is annoying when they are not used.

As a typographer I am put right off books when they are not used.

[/quote]

Well they annoy me when they are used [:D][:D][:D]

[Dog]

It surprises me that you notice them.

Do you prefer fixed width fonts too?

[chocccie]

It surprises me that you're surprised that I noticed them. 

I'm an observant person - though it's absolutely impossible not to notice them ... I've never seen a book (or anything else) printed like this before - although it's obviously deliberate.

I don't know what fixed width fonts are.  Please enlighten me. 

(Or were you being sarcastic?  If so why????)

[chocccie]

[quote user="Dog"]

They are called ligatures.

For further info read this: http://www.fonts.com/aboutfonts/articles/fyti/ligaturespartone.htm

They make reading easier and it is annoying when they are not used.

As a typographer I am put right off books when they are not used.

The book you are reading may be unusual in it's use of ligatures - is it perhaps from the 1920s or 30s?

 

[/quote]

Thanks for the info.

Yes it is an old book (Cranford - don't laugh!!!)

Why are the ligatures only used when a C or S is followed by a T though?   Would it be down to the peculiar style of the printer?

Re the link you provided .... I've seen that style (used pretty widely) ... but this particular sequence I've never seen before.   It's really off-putting, though not enough to make me put the book down, which is good because it's making me laugh and smile a lot  [:D]

[chocccie]

[quote user="Tandem_Pilot"][quote user="chocccie"]

Also can somebody tell me why the comma and the N on my keyboard aren't working??!!!!  It's most annoying.  It's been like this a while sometimes when I reboot it is working fine and then the next time it is duff again.  MOst annoying  [:@]  [:@]  [:@]

[/quote]

Try another keyboard?

[/quote]

I think I might try stamping on it first ... show it who's boss and all that!  [;-)] 

If that fails - though I'm confident it won't - another keyboard might be the only option.  Damn more money to fork out [:(]

[Dog]

Go to the 2nd article on ligatures - they can be used in unusual ways which is not too good in a book in body text.

What is the book called and when was it published?

There may be more lurking in there somewhere.

[cooperlola]

[quote user="chocccie"][
(Cranford - don't laugh!!!)


[/quote]Why would anybody laugh?  Brilliant.  Don't stop there, read all her stuff (ligatures and all) - one of my favourite authors.

[chocccie]

ah ... that's the one ... in the second article .. the text in the pink box.... it looks perfectly fine there as a graphic, but as you say not so good in a book.

[Dog]

[quote user="chocccie"]
It surprises me that you're surprised that I noticed them. 

I'm an observant person - though it's absolutely impossible not to notice them ... I've never seen a book (or anything else) printed like this before - although it's obviously deliberate.



I don't know what fixed width fonts are.  Please enlighten me. 
(Or were you being sarcastic?  If so why????)
[/quote]

I was replying to tandem - fixed width fonts are used for instance on typewriters and each letter takes up the same space - some cheapo fonts still use this. If you had a book full of this type you would find reading it difficult. In a well designed font each letter has it's own width this makes reading easier.

Sometimes though certain letter combinations need different spacing to make them balance to the eye - altering the letter space by eye is called kerning. Today with computers it is simple to have negative kerning.

Read all the articles on that web site and you will get to learn a lot.

Typography is quite underlooked today but is vital for good communication.

 

[chocccie]

I did actually work in publishing for the best part of a decade ... so I should know this.  Although I didn't get much involved in the actual printing.

my partner's dad was a printer - it can cause a passion can't it, the written word.

[Dog]

Pleas tell -  what is the book called and when was it published?

[chocccie]

I said already ... Cranford.

I'll pop upstairs and get it and find the publication date.

[Dog]

[quote user="chocccie"]I said already ... Cranford.

I'll pop upstairs and get it and find the publication date.
[/quote]

 

Sorry thought you were refering to another person on the forum.

Is that the title or the author?

[chocccie]

It's an Everyman paperback   ... Dent Dutton (printers?) ... not much publising info

"first included in Everyman's LIbrary 1906 - last reprinted 1964 .................. No 1083"

 ......... so my copy is from 1964 .... what a long time ago, maybe it's worth something????        It's got that lovely old book smell to it.

Flicking through ... the ligatures are also used when S meets T (though that isn't as off putting) .... can't see any others.

[chocccie]

It's the title... the author is Mrs Gaskell   (how quaint!)

[Pierre ZFP]

That was an interesting link.

To hijack the thread slightly, what is it called when an O and E are run into each other?

I've seen it in placenames in Northern France and Flanders such as 'Le Roeulx'  or rather 'Le Rœulx'

 

[Clair]

[quote user="Pierre ZFP"]To hijack the thread slightly, what is it called when an O and E are run into each other?

I've seen it in placenames in Northern France and Flanders such as 'Le Roeulx'  or rather 'Le Rœulx'

[/quote]

When spelling in French, you would say "O et E liés", as in œuf, cœur or sœur.

[Dog]

[quote user="Pierre ZFP"]

That was an interesting link.

To hijack the thread slightly, what is it called when an O and E are run into each other?

I've seen it in placenames in Northern France and Flanders such as 'Le Roeulx'  or rather 'Le Rœulx'

 

[/quote]

They are dipthongs - currently being killed of in language due to the web as it does not recognise them.

[just john]

Dog, you have gone up in my estimation, take a housepoint! what a lost art typography is, it's my history too, though from the ad world, Typositor, Berthold, QBF, Sans Serif, Technique et al, where are they now, it's possible to see good typo from Mac's but rarely seen since the majority of Art Studios have become in-house; Yet people still validate the work of Johnston and Gill (and quite a few others!) everyday, ligatures, dipthongs and all

[mint]

Diphthongs, yes remember those:  2 vowel sounds.

But don't get me on type faces.  Nowadays if you say Upper Case or lower case, they look at you as though you are speaking Martian.

Nevermind, Universal, serif, sans serif, etc. etc.

Oh Lord, I now sound like a Grumpy Old Woman but then I will be 60 this year!

[Dog]

[quote user="just john "]Dog, you have gone up in my estimation, take a housepoint! what a lost art typography is, it's my history too, though from the ad world, Typositor, Berthold, QBF, Sans Serif, Technique et al, where are they now, it's possible to see good typo from Mac's but rarely seen since the majority of Art Studios have become in-house; Yet people still validate the work of Johnston and Gill (and quite a few others!) everyday, ligatures, dipthongs and all[/quote]

Typography isn't lost it's just ignored by the ignorant.

I have over 12,000 fonts on my Mac and I am retired.

Sadly the graduates I employed were all spoilt with the computer.

They really need to learn how to use one before entering on a graphics or typographic degree.

[bubbles]

[quote user="sweet 17"]

Diphthongs, yes remember those:  2 vowel sounds.

But don't get me on type faces.  Nowadays if you say Upper Case or lower case, they look at you as though you are speaking Martian.

Nevermind, Universal, serif, sans serif, etc. etc.

Oh Lord, I now sound like a Grumpy Old Woman but then I will be 60 this year!

[/quote]

what date?

i'll try and remember.

[bubbles]

ok , dog, here's a question for you then.

can you tell me why my quotes all come up with < and > all over the place ?

(i am using my mac!!)

oh, and while i am at it, can you tell me how i can get this new macbook pro to do capitals in the right places automatically like my old mac used to (and still does - it is still going strong and it was born in the last century) after full stops and for i on its own.

that would be great.