BQF Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 HelloI am buying a house (in 61) through an english agent, which has been owned for a long time by an English couple. I have inspected the house pretty carefully and I'm not sure a survey would add much value - work needs to be done but I know this already.I have a french colleague who can help me translatre the Compromis, and I have no inheritance or tax issues - its a second home and I am happy for my only son to inherit the house if I pop my clogs.Do I really need to spend £1,000 on a lawyer in the UK? What value will they add? I have all the finances in place, in Euros, can be there to sign the Acte de Vente etc - what value would they add?Anyone else gone it alone - any 'war stories' to make me think twice about going it alone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opalienne Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 You definitely don't need a lawyer in the UK. The notaire who will handle the sale in France is an independent public official, and should not favour one side over the other. If you have queries about anything contained in the Compromis, you can take them up with the notaire. There's nothing to be gained by having your own lawyer, particularly when you find out how high the legal fees are for the purchase (you may not yet know that the purchaser pays the lot!) Surveys are not usual in France either, BTW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debra Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 I agree - no need for a UK solicitor. However, if your French friend can be there for the final acte de vente, that would be useful. Our estate agent was there to translate between us and the notaire - mainly boring things like our drainage wasn't up to scratch but we didn't have to worry because the village is going onto mains drainage this year and we would simply have to connect to that rather than instal a new fosse septique....oh and the neighbour has access onto our drive when he wants to paint the side of his house that faces onto our drive..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Val_2 Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 Save your money for the work that needs doing instead of paying greedy lawyers in another country to hardly do a thing that is no different from a french notaire doing anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceni Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 Spend the money on a chocolate fireguard - at least you can enjoy watching it melt.Johnnot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 "Do I really need independent legal advice?..." Most people who feel they have to ask that question probably do need independent legal advice, to put their minds at rest, otherwise they will be worried throughout the process that somebody (but never the lawyer of course) is taking them for a ride.Those who are able to accept that in the vast majority of house sales in France nobody is out to con you, and any illegalities will be picked up by the notaire - who is an independent official acting for the government rather than a lawyer appointed by the seller - manage perfectly well on their own, with the help of the agent (who, in most of France, is working primarily for you, the buyer, because you pay the fees). Of course, there is a small risk involved. Most people readily accept that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BQF Posted February 15, 2006 Author Share Posted February 15, 2006 [quote user="Will the Conqueror"]"Do I really need independent legal advice?..." Most people who feel they have to ask that question probably do need independent legal advice, to put their minds at rest, otherwise they will be worried throughout the process that somebody (but never the lawyer of course) is taking them for a ride.Those who are able to accept that in the vast majority of house sales in France nobody is out to con you, and any illegalities will be picked up by the notaire - who is an independent official acting for the government rather than a lawyer appointed by the seller - manage perfectly well on their own, with the help of the agent (who, in most of France, is working primarily for you, the buyer, because you pay the fees). Of course, there is a small risk involved. Most people readily accept that. [/quote]It's not so much being taken for a ride I am concerned about, but more any areas that the Notaire would not look at that an independent solicitor might do. Consensus seems to be that there isn't much that could fall between the cracks, so I will save the cash and put it towards my loft conversion!!Thanks all for the advice though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Zoff Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 I agree with Will on this. The answer will not be the same for everyone or every transaction.I wouldn't personally bother paying for separate advice as I think I know enough about the process and contract side now to get by. But as is clearly shown by some experiences (one was posted on another French property website this week where the English vendor appears to have signed a contract he did not understand and stands to lose a lot of money), some people do need help. This is especially the case if the Notaire does not speak English, the purchaser's command of French is not good, they do not have complete confidence in the agent and/or the amount of money involved is substantial. (On the latter point, also worth remembering that a low purchase price does not necessarily mean that signing a bad contract won't land you with very expensive obligations. Indeed, the "low" price might be because of the existence of such obligations.)In most cases, everything will be hunky dory so the majority may well say that involvement of another professional is just extra expense. But if it saves someone from making an expensive mistake or worrying their heads off.... What you must not do in France - just as you wouldn't in England - is sign a contract you do not fully understand. OK, the Notaire is liable if he has fouled up but, unlike in England where your solicitor is acting solely for you (and compensation is readily availiable for the solicitor's mistakes through their mandatory insurance), the Notaire is not advising you as such. You agree terms with the Vendor and if, through ignorance of the law or language, you sign a contract that is not to your advantage, it is likely to be a case of "Let the buyer beware". And even if the Notaire has slipped up, do you really want to rely on being able to take on a member of French establishment? Best to avoid finding yourself in that position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 I suppose anothe case of what you are used to. In the UK we do need solicitors, but how do they come up with such differing costs. There is also this, where they are not on a fixed fee, of sending letters to confirm that they have sent you a letter and upping the costs.We will be buying in France for the fist time later this year and at a recent exhibition approached a couple of solicitors - the quotes around about £1,500. Seems to me that they just want a slice of the action.Perhaps, properly translated copies of the documents first and THEN if there is anything you are unsure of consult a solicitor. But there must be English speaking solicitors in France so would it not be better using one of these?Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opalienne Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 There are certain to be some English speaking notaires in France. But bear in mind that (1) if you are buying through a notaire rather than an agent you will have to use him/her for the transaction and that s/he may well not speak English; and (2) both sides have to go to the notaire's office to sign and I can't imagine vendors being very happy about having to travel long distances just so that you can have an English-speaking notaire. Best is to find someone who can translate the documents and question the notaire for you, if your French isn't up to it. But not a lawyer, if you don't want to throw a lot of money away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brilec Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 You have already sauid that you have a friend who will translate for you, so this should not be an issue.Bear in mind that the Notaire has a responsibility to ensure that you understand what is happening, and as such, your friend's name will be included in the documentation as the official translator. This is probably to get the notaire off the hook if it later transpires that you signed something without understanding fully.Our notaire was very careful to explain everything very carefully, though he only spoke french, he did do his best to ensure that we fully understood what was going on, and we did have the french estate agent with us who did speak good english.Save your money. Actually the legal "fees" in france are mainly taxes, the notaire only gets a very small part for himself, rather less than a solicitor in England would end up with.You can, of course, opt to have your own Notaire as well, the costs are no more, as the fee is divided between the two of them. So if you could find a local english speaking one, it might be the other way out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
le bouffon Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 We used a english "lawyer"when(waste of money) we bought are first house some years ago,mostly the lawyers are clerks working for a law firms and would not be able to represent anyone in France,you do get a translation but boy do you pay for it.t For the last two houses we bought we never went near an english "lawyer" as the notaires do the real work, no point paying twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opalienne Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 [quote user="Maryduff"] I agree a Uk solicitor is a waste of money. Why use an English solicitor for French law advice? If you needed legal advice on UK Law for example would, you instruct a French lawyer estalbished in England?We instructed a French English-speaking solicitor and strongly recommend him to anyone buying French property: http://www.french-solicitor.com contact@french-solicitor.com Mary Duff[/quote]A very similar message seems to have been posted three times in anwer to different questions. I found that intriguing so looked at this solicitor's site. €500 just to review the purchase documents and give basic advice on inheritance etc, when this could be done (1) with a translator and (2) buying a book or just asking advice on the website. Don't forget that the notaire who handles the purchase is independent and you can ask him/her about anything you don't understand without fear of being tricked or kept in the dark. €750 for a change of marriage regime? Sounds high to me. And €250 for a tontine? Ours didn't cost anything - it was simply thrown in with the purchase.Maybe I am out of touch with prices but these fees sound a lot to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viv Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 Yes I noticed that Mary Duff is really plugging this one.Are you on commission Mary, as you only ever pop up to recommend this company?[^o)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debra Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 Mmm - all this person's posts are to recommend this solicitor - is this advertising? Is Mary Duff married to the solicitor???!edited to remove reference to another post because the email address was similar but not the same (sorry folks - hasty searching and reading there!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viv Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 My goodness, she's popping up everywhere, is it a virus ?[;)] She must have been very satisfied! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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